CDC Cover-up?

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The problem with vaccines, is they are about like antibiotics, and a resistance is built up to them. its been found that the less you use them the more your own body will built up its own natural resistances.

You need to provide citations for this, because at this point(and this is according to modern science and research) that statement is entirely false. You do not build a resistance to a vaccine. The vaccine helps you build defenses against specific strains. The reason you need repeated vaccines for things like the flu is because the organism mutates and you are not immune to the new strain.

Well it only stands to figure, perhaps not a resistance to the vaccines, but to the flues them selves. the more your exposed the more your body tries to build up its own resistances. so yes, how I worded my last sentence was not correct.

If such studies do exist, though you haven't posted any, then it appears they had aberrant results that were not consistently repeatable. Studies can sometimes show aberrant results This is why obsessing over this individual study or that individual study goes nowhere and why you get the best information from systematic reviews and meta-analyses. They let you look at the trend of where the science is heading, the big picture.

This is why reviews like the Cochrane Library review are so important; and it showed that a link between MMR vaccine and autism was unlikely.



Nothing in science is proven, as any explanation based on the evidence can always theoretically be disproved later by contrary evidence, and the Cochrane Library review does show that adverse effects can result from those vaccines. However, they mentioned that the effects could not be separated from the diseases they protected against, so on the whole of the evidence vaccination is highly necessary to prevent the spread of deadly and disfiguring diseases. This necessity has been borne out with vaccination fears allowing measles to make a comeback, resulting in deaths even.

Wow! Can you say...In Cahoots!!??

Yes. BUT... Vaccination does this in a safe way. Without the immunities granted by vaccines... MANY of these illnesses are fatal (including the flu). As a result, letting the body take care of it is a dangerous practice and can lead to disability, permanent damage and even death.

Riley wrote:

No one has stated that they do not have side effects. I only need one fact... The things we are vaccinated against... CAN KILL YOU. Period. All you need to hear... right there in one statement... Any side effects are mitigated by the fact that you didn't die.

But you know what isn't listed as a side effect in any of them? Autism.

Ironically enough, i believe the information age is responsible for The upswing in autism cases

Yes and the ultimate "proof" that it does not cause severe autism/brain damage came from a study led by Poul Thorsen. This despite the vaccine court compensating for autism and it HAS been listed as a side effect in the past.. specifically encephalitis which can cause autism. Not all diseases are going to kill you, and you are not guaranteed to even catch them. Those who are predisposed to side effects could be screened out but they're not even trying to do that, instead they guilt people who dare to question. I also do not think the "rare minority good for the many so it's worth it" is a very moral view to have. People should not be seen as expendable for the greater good.

Oh dear now that makes a little more sense.

No. Encephalitis can cause brain damage. Not autism.

Please read back a little bit to my post with the images. Encephalitis does not cause the interconnectivity that is the hallmark of our condition.

It is not ONE study that states vaccines don't cause autism... it was ONE study that stated they did... and it was ripped apart in peer review, the man lost his license for fraudulent research and even ADMITTED that his paper was fraudulent.

There are HUNDREDS of studies that show that vaccine's do not cause autism. There are hundreds more that tried to show a connection, but found none...

This current issue is not a study that showed it... it was someone reinterpreting data from a defunct study in a fraudulent manner.

Actually the vaccine court rulings have said otherwise. I could post the video of those who have been compensated up if you like. One case in particular was Hannah Poling who had an underlining mitochondrial disorder. Before you try poke holes in that with "autism like symptoms" rather than her having autism.. autism and autism like symptoms are exactly the same thing as it has always been diagnosed based on symptoms. There is no distinction. I suspect you just do not like autism being linked to brain damage and the subsequent stigma attached.

..and "our" condition..?

Your condition is not even close to being in the same category as someone with severe autism so do not group them together. Severe autism and HFA are completely different conditions.

Last edited by riley on 02 Sep 2014, 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh and I love this continued "studies prove don't question the studies prove! Wakefield was a fraud the studies prove!"

It's strange that the credibility of CDC studies is now being put under question for REAL reason yet people continue to carry on about Wakefield. Bias.

Shouldn't ANY scientific fraud or/and manipulation of results be considered bad? Or does it only count when you disagree with the results? Why is there not the same level of vitriol against Thorsen than there is against Wakefield? because Thorsen provided the answers you believe in. Again.. bias.

Liar. Again, nothing in science is proven and the Cochrane Library review looked at dozens of studies and millions of children, including many Thorsen had no part of, and found a link between MMR vaccine and autism to be unlikely.

No offense, but a court ruling has nothing to do with fact or science. Period.

Galileo was convicted of untruth and heresy for espousing a belief and support of a heliocentric solar system. He was placed under house arrest for the remainder of his life... by a court which stated he was wrong... yet... he was right... further, courts have convicted MANY MANY MANY people who were then exonerated by DNA evidence. Therefore, a court ruling on a scientific topic means less than nothing when in the arena of facts.

Our condition. Autistic Spectrum Individuals. Autism... I am autistic as are most of us on this message board. If you do not share this trait, you have my apology for being inclusive. For the record, you are not a psychiatric professional... and your statements have shown little in the way of understanding of the underlying mechanisms behind autistic spectrum disorders... so your assertion that my condition and a lower functioning autist's condition are different conditions (QED: caused by different things) is inherently flawed, and essentially incorrect. The studies I have spoken about that show the different nerve trunks and "excess" synapses in the autistic brain have been conducted with a broad sample size from those who are completely non-verbal through myself and others who are much higher functioning than I - and the same structures have been found in all our brains. That being said, you have absolutely no idea what my level of functioning is, only that I am able to communicate through the written word, so please keep your judgmental and condescending words to yourself. (Yes, you have free speech, but your rights end where my nose begins)

Lastly... I will rephrase the point you are questioning, since my assumption was that you had an understanding of the scientific method...

For anything to be considered scientifically valid - it must be repeatable. That means that when you make observations of the things, you will get the same results... over and over and over and over. Scientific surety is usually labels with a sigma occurrence number... Before scientist label something as fact they make sure that their results are verifiable to a sigma-5 statistical level... OR, 1 in 3.5x10^7... simpler - at sigma-5 there is a 1 in 350 million chance that they are incorrect.

EXAMPLE ONLY - I am not putting words in your mouth: You state vaccines cause autism. Many anti-vaxxers state the same thing (I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE ANTI-VACCINE)... and all of them cite the study by Dr. Andrew Wakefield. Wakefield published ONE study. The study was PROVEN to be fraudulent and Mr Waekfield lost his license to practice medicine because of it and LATER, he admitted he committed fraud.

So... that is ZERO studies that show autism is caused by vaccines. But... for the sake of argument, let's say there is this one. No one else has successfully repeated his results. So, even if it it wasn't fraudulent, there was an error in interpretation or more likely, in experimental method.

Since it is not verifiable, it is not considered scientifically valid.

The statement you had so many problems with was because I was being politic and polite... which I have stopped doing at this point. You have a"study" (note the quotes) that "proves" autism is caused by vaccines. That is only one and it is countered by HUNDREDS of other studies that state the exact opposite. I state that your "proof" (note the quotes again) was manufactured and was even admitted to be fraudulent by the man that gave the "proof".

NOW... in the case of the CDC "whistleblower"... We have a case of a man finding proof in a study that he didn't conduct, dissecting the information in ways that allow you to find any information you want in it (For the record, I found proof of ancient aliens, the roswell crash, one dimensional gold, reptiles in government and the hoax of the moon landing in the same study)... (here is information about the man and his "proof" - note the quotes again) http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/did ... an-boys/...

Now... let's just assume that he is being accurate... his information states that there was a 240% increase in incidents of autism... in one city... in one socio-economic group... in one race... in one gender... Let that sink in for a minute... it was poor, african-american males in atlanta. That's it. It was not across the board. It was

Not that croup, gender, and race in other cities... Just that one... This is suspicious, both from a logical and a scientific standpoint. Since the results were not repeated in any other group, gender, race or location, they are not repeatable.

So... we have (even though they are both discredited - we are taking the stance that they were not manufactured) 2 studies that state that vaccines cause autism. They have not been able to be replicated. Ever. Thus, in the scientific method, they are only notable instances, not fact. They are an anomaly - statistically and scientifically.

These statistical anomalies are not proof as there are hundreds (if not thousands) of studies that have tried, but have not been successful, to repeat their results.

I have included citations - 107 studies that show that there has been no correlation, let alone proof, of a link between vaccines and autism. Those are below.

If you can find a study that has not a) been discredited by peer review, b) not resulted in the researcher being stripped of his license for fraudulent research practices c) has not been admitted to be a fraud by the researcher and d) (and this is the big one) is an actual fresh study, not a rehash of existing information dissected in such a way to elicit cries of bias (as the CDC whistleblower's statements have)... Then I will gladly discuss it with you... and then we will still have to wait and see... because it will have to be repeatable... Until then, I will stand by my guns, and the data and studies that have been conducted...

Until that happens, anyone that states that vaccines cause autism are simply fear mongers and rumor mongers perpetuating falsehoods - like holistic medicine, cancer curing weed, and crystal healing.

I will state this... if there are a sudden rash of studies that show a conclusive link between vaccines and autism, I will jump on board with the anti-vaxxers in a second... but until then... It is bad science.... For the record... They claim it is themiserol that causes it. The compound hasn't been in vaccines since 1998. It wasn't invented until 16 years after autism was described... without a time machine, it could not have caused autism.

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Again, for the last freaking time, nothing in science is proven, as it is based on explanations from observation and a future observation can always contradict and topple an explanation, as a counterexample.

As for Thorsen, is he not on the run from the law? Seems to be a lot worse for him than it was for Wakefield.

You have failed to address the findings of the Cochrane Library review, which carries heavy weight in this discussion. Until you address that, then all you're doing is just picking at small little things, missing the big picture, the forest for the trees.

I wanted to address this statement individually. Your wording is, whether you realize it or not, inherently disrespectful. For the record, you are wrong - both on current diagnostic methods, causes and your statement that "autism and autism like symptoms are exactly the same thing as it has always been diagnosed based on symptoms."

Those that state that brain damage causes autism or "autism like symptoms" have been speaking false for a while.

Schizophrenia when developed in childhood (a rare case) is often mistaken for autism.

Avoidant personality disorder - often mistaken for autism in the young because of it's similar behaviors.

Reactive attachment disorder; Some developmental disorders, particularly language disorders, can mimic autism; People with severe intellectual disabilities may have many behaviors similar to those of autism but are not necessarily autistic.

Simply put, autism isn't caused by brain damage... Brain damage shows up very differently on functional MRI scans than autism.

You ascribe an emotional content to my statements that doesn't exist. I don't like the assertion that brain damage causing autism like symptoms; therefore it causes autism. But my reason for not liking the statements is that it is not true. I would take the same line of opposition to someone stating that our sky is red or that it is blue because the scatter of light caused by methane in the atmosphere... neither statement is correct, and therefore, needs correction.

We are hurt most by a lack of education and understanding of our condition (and if you don't like that statement - tough... you can remove yourself from the conversation)... and when the community of Autistic Spectrum Individuals spreads misinformation (like vaccines causing autism, brain damage and autism being synonymous, or brain damage causing autism), it is little wonder that the general public has no clue as to what to believe.

By way of example... take a look at the following document. All of those conditions are COMMONLY mistaken for alzheimers... which is diagnosed via symptomology. They all have different treatments... by your reasoning (autism like symptoms=autism), they should all be treated the same way. Which is incorrect.

http://metromedicaldirect.wordpress.com ... s-disease/