White guy kills multiple people in black church

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Closing the doors to newcomers would be going to far but they might have someone with a concealed weapon keep an eye on anyone who seems new and suspicious for some reason.

Well, the coroner says that the victims were shot multiple times.

My guess is that Mr. Roof isn't exactly a crack shot.

We don't know how long this took to go down. At least I haven't heard.

The remaining pastor(s) of this church are adamant that they won't bring guns into the church to protect themselves. But they are going to add (unarmed) guards within the church.

Yes, let the people seeking spiritual development and aiming to embody the best aspects of the divine and sacred (let's not bicker about exactly what that means to each person, sect, and religion) guard their houses of worship with a deadly weapon or two, cuz we know that combining religion with munitions always works out well....

Depends. Those two guys that attacked the...draw Mohammed thingy were taken out by one guard. It can go either way, but you're better off with the guard no matter, apart from your bank account.

Hiring guards based on spree killings is a waste for the most part, though. Other than a morale boost, of course.

Giving people the option to legally carry is prudent and has the potential for the best outcome (people that choose this option tend to be decent folk that are serious about it), especially when the gunz aren't going anywhere no matter what laws are implemented (ghetto gangs that cause a heap of chaos seem to get them just fine, even though they'd be barred from purchasing them legally).

Actually, I'm not making excuses, but rather ... making a keen observation of the bone structure in his face. This is not normal, what I'm seeing. I think he's got a genetic abnormality, which may have gone undiagnosed, or worse .... was diagnosed, but nothing was done to help him.

The reason for pointing this out, isn't to make excuses for him, but to help determine who might be the worst candidate for gun ownership.

I'm curious to know how anyone would know how many people are carrying a concealed piece to thier church.

Con·cealed
kənˈsēld/
adjective
kept secret; hidden.
"a concealed weapon"

We've been over this before many times.....

This one shooting isn't indicative of an epidemic. Even so, it will encourage at least some number of people to carry thier piece on thier person to church. I'm not a churchgoer but If I were it wouldn't occur to me to remove my pistil and leave it in the car any more than I'd leave my phone in the car.
Guns in church = hard target.

You can't know without a survey. However, an educated guess says the odds go up within a culture that readily accepts concealed weapons permits. What's the point in having them if no one ever obtains one?

I just saw a story on the local news interviewing a pastor at a church around here and you can bet they are on high alert after learning about this. He said they are developing a plan which other churches are in the process of doing. Don't be surprised if many of them have a full fledged security plan in place, kind of like what you would see at a shopping mall or other public place where people gather.

And if you get broadsided by a semi you're "toast", too, so let's all stop wearing our seatbelts.

I will address your questionsin the order that you have asked

1.) Part of the reason why the south has a laid back attitude is so one can assess the people that they are dealing with. --Let a**holes be a**holes up front, let them run their mouths, let them be themselves out in the open for all to see. While they may try to cover themselves and be furtive about their beliefs, they will soon see that nobody apparently cares, and they will assume that it is okay to be public about their opinions and their views.

As such you will know the people to avoid, who's businessess you shouldnot patronise, the people that any sane person should avoid at all costs.

2.) How does the Military have anything to do with the subsiding of racism? The Military is very large, very diverse organisation that has people from all walks of life, social classes, religions, and races. The US Military is representitive America people as a whole in a very broad microcosm. The armed forces is the oraganisation that people from all races, walks of life, religion have to work togeather very cohesively in order to enforce American policy (such as it is, and as screwed up as the politicos who are in charge may be) in situations where people have to constantly risk their lives to support each other in achieving the orders that they have been given.

Because of the realities inherent in what the military is, and what they do, it would be a total catastrophe if service members had to question the integrity of people who you risk your life with. In order to keep unit cohesion high, and morale high, the military cannot, and does not tolerate people who cannot overlook something as trivial as the race, religion, social class, or sexual orientation of other individuals get in the way of accomplishing it's objectives.

Because the military is such a diverse organisation amongst all of it's members, there are bound to be racist individuals from all backgrounds. When spotted, the militarys' solution is quite straightforwards and to the point. -- Put them all togeather in either the same bunks, or in the same unit, and ensure that if they cannot work their personal issues out that their lives will become utter hell until they can come to a consensus.

3.) The guy in question was arrested and jailed for possession of opiates a full month before he recieved the firearm from his parent. He was unemployed with no money. Most likely if his parents hadn't bailed him out of jail, he would have been sitting in jail for at least several weeks before appearing in court on charges of possession. For the possession of opiates, he would have gotten at least 30 days in jail, and a hefty fine on top of that. --If he has no job,he has no legitimate earned income, and will be in jail not only for the sentance, but also to pay off the fine, which would mean well over a month in jail. The parent had to know what happened and the charges in order to get the kid out of jail to give him his birthday present. -- It is a major stretch of the imagination to assume that the parent didn't know what was going on with their kid'sdrug usage.

Do some research and you'll find that most of the USA by state is "shall issue" where CCW's are concerned. Only a small minority are not. Surveys don't let you know anything for certain. They are more of a feeler than anything since no one has a responsibility to answer a survey, let alone answer it honestly.

CCW history by state
Hmmmm........Looking at this living map of CCW states it appears that the state of Washington, with all of it's politically and socially enlightened citizens who would generally frown upon the carrying of concealed handguns to church (at least according to His Partisanship, anyway) went to a shall issue system BEFORE most of the evangelical, racist, knuckle dragging, Southeast did. Ten (10) years before backward South Carolina did.
Fascinating....


It's a knee-jerk reaction to what has already happened in one church. The potential of copy-catting may be a little higher tomorrow, being the first sabbath after the shooting, but it'll fade if nothing happens and nothing probably will happen.

If anything it'll be lesson to the naive masses that, while thier house of worship is sacred to them, it might not be to a predator. Maybe a slight bump up in the issuance of carry permits will follow as well.
We'll just have t see.....

You can't insulate yourself from all risks; at schools, airports, church, malls, whatever. There isn't anything you can do to prepare or to stop spree killers, in retrospect you can point back and look at all the signs we missed but the reality is that nobody can predict someone is capable of committing such a horrific crime before they actually do it. Living in fear isn't living at all, I'll take the risk that comes with potential psycho killers and terrorists since it is a statistically irrelevant happening and giving up our freedoms solves nothing.

I do think there is probably more that can be done to prevent people from falling between the cracks but that's just in general not to specifically stop spree killers but it does seem that most fit the profile of isolated angry young men with limited employment and social prospects. 99.999999% people like this are harmless and need help more than anything, most of us probably fit into this profile in at least one way.

Last edited by Jacoby on 20 Jun 2015, 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I agree with this. Concealed carry can't prevent everything, but it can certainly help.

I think his point just flew right by you. That being that the concealed weapon, just gives you a false sense of security.

But I am going to steal your argument and use it the next time some gun nut tells me, that we shouldn't have any gun regulations because the criminals will still get them anyway.

This from the person who on page 1 of this thread said "NRA terrorists strike again".