Another school shooting in America

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There's no such animal as gun carnage. You say it as if guns are living breathing entities with minds of their own and able to act on their own. Our population is huge and very diverse and with all that it's just plain nuttier. We have serious issues but are too polarized to come together on what those issues, let alone agree on how to fix them.....if that's even possible.

New Zealand could be awash in guns and there'd be little to no affect on your gun carnage concerns.


They shouldn't have even brought politics up since that is a very divisive topic with the strong possibly of lasting discord being the result. It was just plain silly or even foolish of them to apologist for whoever the POTUS is at the time, whether or not they voted for them or not.


That's because your government and many of NZ's citizens wisely value having the US as an ally. They don't want to do anything to risk tipping that apple cart.

Because it's wise for a country to want only people who will be an asset or at least be able to support themselves and not be bottomless holes to throw the earnings of others into.

Raptor, how can you not see the direct correlation between number of guns & number of incidents of gun violence? The more guns there are, the more that mentally unstable people, criminals, thieves, and children/others will intentionally, or accidentally, end up with a gun in their hands and shoot people. Period. The numbers don't lie.

I'm not saying there needs to be a gun ban. But there needs to be some kind of control. Obviously this situation just keeps getting further and further out of control in the USA.

Also, as for gun ownership rights.. why does a citizen have a right to own military weapons? These are not target shooting guns or for hunting. Their only purpose is to kill people. That's a weird one to me - the whole gun fanatic desire to own the deadliest guns possible.

Exactly, I don’t see how it makes an good sense to let civvies own military grade weapons, you don’t need a AK-47 with underslubg grenade launcher and ACOG scope to defend yourself with. Weapons like those are designed only to cause massive death and destruction.

@Auntblabby: I agree, one does not “accidentally” shoot multible individuals.

It is not about targets or animals. One of the founders of the USA was Thomas Jefferson. he said “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
In other words Jefferson and other founding fathers did not trust the government they created not to become oppressive and tyrannical. They wanted to make sure the common people always had the means to overthrow the government, should the state of the union degrade to that point. That is the purpose of the second amendment of the US constitution. An AK-47 with underslung grenade launcher and ACOG scope is what our founders wanted us to have.

Uh, they wrote that back in the days of shooting musket balls that took time to load & required skill and decisive action to use.. not AK-47 hair trigger assault rifles for all.

Besides the type of gun, this argument only holds up for citizens against government - which extremely rarely happens. What about all the citizen on citizen gun violence? Does this text from Thomas Jefferson endorse gun ownership/access for those purposes, too? You really think the founding fathers of America intended for there to be a wild ass gun culture full of murdering each other?

Again, I'm not for a gun ban, just gun control so that they don't end up in the hands of so many criminals, mentally unstable people, or children.

Ya, pretty sure full-auto rifles didn’t exist back then.

What is a problem is this “gun culture” that so many people seem to have, this mindset that your not a “real man” if your not packing the biggest, baddest, killiest gun on the market. People shouldn’t be able to just walk into a gun store and buy these kind of killing machines. This isn’t like not selling beer on sundays, people are getting KILLED because of America’s lack of gun restrictions. How many more people need to die before these gun nuts see the problem?

There are more guns in America then registered cars. Yet automobile crashes kill more per year. The more automobiles there are, the more that mentally unstable people, criminals, thieves, and children/others will intentionally, or accidentally, end up with a automobile in their hands and kill people. Period. The numbers don't lie.

I'm not saying there needs to be a automobile ban. But there needs to be some kind of control. Obviously this situation just keeps getting further and further out of control in the USA.



As said on numerous occasions, I use my AR15's for competitions and have used them for hunting. It's simply an excellent and versatile platform





You don't get to tell me what I can and can't have... Funny enough, I am in the process of legally acquiring a LMT 40 MM launcher (M203) I also love my ACOGs, damn fine scope.




-Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended.
-Four ruffians break into my house!
-"What the devil?!" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle.
-Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's very dead on the spot.
-Draw my pistol on the second man, misses him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog.
-I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot.
-"Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms.
-Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.
-Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since the triangular wounds are impossible to stitch up.
-Just as the founding fathers intended...

Or I could defend my home with a HKP30L like John Wick did.





What if we need to do so again someday and then we are completely unarmed?



Is self defense not allowed?



They had rapid fire weapons back then, such as the puckle gun and girandoni rifle... It wasn't just muskets and cannons.

There are already plenty of "gun control" laws on the books addressing your concerns. The problem is the government does not enforce them. So now people do what you are doing - calling for the government to be the only ones with guns.

The problem with that is: In an effort to protect the common citizen, the founders believed the citizens should own all of the military arms and specifically stated that the federal government should not have a standing army except in time of war. Currently there over 200K non military federal agents that are armed with military weapons. (There are only 180K active duty marines).

I think the lack of proper education (indoctrination) and lack of armed faculty contribute to school shootings. I have been around guns my entire life. Gun clubs at school and taking guns to school was common into the late 1960's. (Yes, it was common for both teachers and students to be armed at school.) Mass shootings were extremely rare two generations ago.

Believing there is "a wild ass gun culture full of murdering each other" is as much a mentally deranged concept, as those who commit the mass shootings. The whole vilify firearm owners as “unstable gun nuts“ movement is a fantasy. If you truly believe the world is a safe, happy place, I pity you. Travel outside of first world countries and their foreign resort areas will teach you otherwise.

For those who hold the "only the government should have guns, and citizens should be defenseless" opinion: You are being complicit in dishonesty to others. Learn about the pogroms of China, Russia, Germany, Vietnam, etc. how they were orchestrated, and the results of them. I am retired US military, and have seen what horrors the real world has to offer. There are plenty of ongoing pogroms around the world you can visit today.

I do not understand people who think their emotions can alter the realities of the world. Also, history teaches what man is capable of. I am done with trying to teach basic civics to people that should have learned it in primary school.

Cars are rarely used as weapons. Guns ARE weapons.

So then regulate those guns to responsible owners for competition/recreation & ensure there are safeguards in place that prevent criminally insane or mentally ill people from accessing them. Gun control, not gun ban.

When's the last time a military contingent broke into your home? The "to defend myself from the boogieman," argument is extremely weak. Thieves usually break into empty homes to rob in the first place.. and are typically unarmed idiots seeking anything they can turn into quick cash for drugs or w/e. Even IF someone broke into your home while you were present, why would your first move be to kill them? That's not self defence, that's murder. Sure, beat the living crap out of them and tell them to f**k off without any of your material possessions, I get that, but move number one = kill people for trespassing? Again, this is just part of the bizarre extremist gun culture in America that's fuelled by lobbyists from the gun industry - the very people that stand to profit most from making people fear one another enough to sell them guns, guns, guns, and more guns & ammo.

Sure, self defence is allowed. But it's kind of like a police officer's use of force. They have guns, but they're not to use them unless lethal force is REQUIRED to defend themselves. There are many other non lethal forms of self defence options besides opening fire at the first inclination that someone else may harm you.

They may have had "rapid fire," guns of their time, but nothing like is available today.

1986, 2003, both attempts were repulsed prior to them gaining entry to my house. Both times were a group of over 20 armed men. (1986 was in a foreign country and required extensive expenditure of ammunition. 2003 only required one shotgun round into the front lawn)
Yes, I will indeed murder an intruder in my house, before they have a chance to murder me.

So then it’s a murderous mentality problem vs a gun problem?

Thieves break in to steal material objects and wealth etc, not to murder people. It’s exceedingly rare.

You trust your life to the intentions of criminals. I would rather be alive and have my actions judged by 12 than carried by 6...

No, I just don't live my life in a constant state of fear.

A 15 year old boy was recently shot and killed by a stray bullet while riding in his parents car downtown Vancouver. It was a drive by gang hit, and the guy's missed shot killed an innocent person. That still doesn't mean everyone in town is going to go arm themselves to the teeth as if it's going to make one lick of difference that sometimes criminals do stupid criminal s**t and people get hurt or die.

Again, it sounds like you're just itching for the chance to murder someone with a gun w/ the played out "but what if someone breaks into my home?" line. Seriously. Break-ins happen. People don't die over them... except for in US States with murders carefully crafted by decades of pro-gun propaganda designed to sell ever more guns & ammo.

Guns are already regulated to those who are responsible owners for competition/recreation and defense. There is already safeguards in place to prevent criminals from purchasing guns and the mentally ill deemed incompetent and/or a danger to their self and others. But to disqualify someone for mental illness is possibly going too far. Where do we draw the line and whom chooses what illness disqualify someone? Would I be disqualified for ASD and Dysthymia? I am not and never have been deemed a danger to myself or others. Does someone get disqualified for simple anxiety or PTSD after being raped? Start disqualifying people for illness and then most will not volunteer for treatment.

To me, the 2nd Amendment is clear as day...



As for our home being broken into... There has been some noticeable and troublesome encounters within my family, both domestic and abroad. Personally, I have had someone attempt to carjack me and looters during long power outages after hurricanes (care to guess what their ethnic background is?).



Yep, same for myself... Thankfully we have a castle doctrine in my state and it extends to our vehicles. So if some ass hat(s) decides to kick my door in and help their lazy self to my hard work. I don't have to wait around to see if they will cause me harm, it would probably be too late. I can just beat their ass(es) like a Cherokee drum and shoot them; it's not murder in anyway, only self defense. It's clear as day home invasion, with a struggle and the criminal(s) shot in the process... No, I don't live my life in constant fear and not because I am very well armed.

The pro gun mindset in the US is centuries old not decades, and has nothing to do with marketing.

I have never lived in fear.

You seem to be small minded and naive. Your attempt to project false conclusions about my life experiences is the tactic of a bully. Are you being a bully to me because you cannot understand that my background and life experiences are different than yours? Does your attempt to vilify me make you feel better about yourself? Is insulting others a hobby of yours?

Your warped view of the world as safe place comes from never leaving your sheltered social class. I imagine you have never walked, at night, down a street in "downtown Vancouver" (not recommended). Your "moral superiority" will quickly turn you into a statistic if you ever end up having to live there.

PLONK