Stormy Daniels lawyer says she was physically threatened

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Kraichgauer
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22 Mar 2018, 3:18 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sure, evangelicals aren't the only religious group to attract bad seeds. But bad evangelicals seem to be the ones getting the most attention, presumably because there is less centralization to reign them in within churches on the religious right.


Don't most protestant denominations consist of the religious right? How many left Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal etc. churches are there in comparison to right?


The religious right is mostly made up of evangelicals (Baptists and Pentecostals, and related faiths). Most conservative Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc, tend to still be counted as mainline Protestants. That's because evangelicals look on mainline denominations as errant in regard to infant baptism (rather than adult believers baptism), for seeing the book of Revelations as a minor book mostly about the early church rather than future events, that a born again experience is required for faith to be legit, liturgical worship, etc. Kind of hard to get on with people who say you're chosen faith doesn't cut the mustard with God. That, and many evangelicals have become too intertwined in worldly politics at the expense of the Gospel, after becoming coopeted by the secular right.


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22 Mar 2018, 3:22 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Re: "Prosperity gospel." This thread is the first place I've ever heard that term or of these people. Is this like a super localized regional capitalist practice of Christianity? :?


It an be found virtually anywhere, but is mostly practised by evangelical and Pentecostal churches in the more conservative areas. There are exceptions, though, as a major prosperity gospel church is located in liberal Seattle.


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goldfish21
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22 Mar 2018, 3:23 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Re: "Prosperity gospel." This thread is the first place I've ever heard that term or of these people. Is this like a super localized regional capitalist practice of Christianity? :?


It an be found virtually anywhere, but is mostly practised by evangelical and Pentecostal churches in the more conservative areas. There are exceptions, though, as a major prosperity gospel church is located in liberal Seattle.


Like anywhere globally or anywhere USA?


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22 Mar 2018, 4:12 am

It is rank hypocrisy to spend to preach about the sanctity of marriage and how adultery is a sin and give a mullegan to a person like Trump.


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EzraS
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22 Mar 2018, 4:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sure, evangelicals aren't the only religious group to attract bad seeds. But bad evangelicals seem to be the ones getting the most attention, presumably because there is less centralization to reign them in within churches on the religious right.


Don't most protestant denominations consist of the religious right? How many left Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal etc. churches are there in comparison to right?


The religious right is mostly made up of evangelicals (Baptists and Pentecostals, and related faiths). Most conservative Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc, tend to still be counted as mainline Protestants. That's because evangelicals look on mainline denominations as errant in regard to infant baptism (rather than adult believers baptism), for seeing the book of Revelations as a minor book mostly about the early church rather than future events, that a born again experience is required for faith to be legit, liturgical worship, etc. Kind of hard to get on with people who say you're chosen faith doesn't cut the mustard with God. That, and many evangelicals have become too intertwined in worldly politics at the expense of the Gospel, after becoming coopeted by the secular right.


This is getting confusing because evangelical, mainline, conservative and right are all synonymous far as I know. Mainline (non-catholic) Christianity consists of conservative right evangelicals. Things like infant baptism and preterism aren't a part of mainline Christian theology. As far as being born again goes, what denomination consists of unborn again Christians? And what mainline denomination doesn't follow the evangel?



EzraS
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22 Mar 2018, 4:29 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is rank hypocrisy to spend to preach about the sanctity of marriage and how adultery is a sin and give a mullegan to a person like Trump.


So they should only give a mullegan to someone who has never sinned?



EzraS
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22 Mar 2018, 4:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Re: "Prosperity gospel." This thread is the first place I've ever heard that term or of these people. Is this like a super localized regional capitalist practice of Christianity? :?


It an be found virtually anywhere, but is mostly practised by evangelical and Pentecostal churches in the more conservative areas. There are exceptions, though, as a major prosperity gospel church is located in liberal Seattle.


How is Pentecostalism seperate from evangelicalism? Sure there are doctrine differences between them and say Baptists such as baptism of the holy spirit and once saved always saved, but they both follow the evangel.



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22 Mar 2018, 1:53 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sure, evangelicals aren't the only religious group to attract bad seeds. But bad evangelicals seem to be the ones getting the most attention, presumably because there is less centralization to reign them in within churches on the religious right.


Don't most protestant denominations consist of the religious right? How many left Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal etc. churches are there in comparison to right?


The religious right is mostly made up of evangelicals (Baptists and Pentecostals, and related faiths). Most conservative Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc, tend to still be counted as mainline Protestants. That's because evangelicals look on mainline denominations as errant in regard to infant baptism (rather than adult believers baptism), for seeing the book of Revelations as a minor book mostly about the early church rather than future events, that a born again experience is required for faith to be legit, liturgical worship, etc. Kind of hard to get on with people who say you're chosen faith doesn't cut the mustard with God. That, and many evangelicals have become too intertwined in worldly politics at the expense of the Gospel, after becoming coopeted by the secular right.


This is getting confusing because evangelical, mainline, conservative and right are all synonymous far as I know. Mainline (non-catholic) Christianity consists of conservative right evangelicals. Things like infant baptism and preterism aren't a part of mainline Christian theology. As far as being born again goes, what denomination consists of unborn again Christians? And what mainline denomination doesn't follow the evangel?


Since when? Are evangelicals now claiming to be mainline, now? If so, then the rest of us certainly haven't given that claim any credence. Because, yes, infant baptism is very much practiced by mainline Protestants, as it's a common practice among Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, Congregationalists, and others.
As far as being "born again" is concerned: most mainline Protestant theology doesn't believe grace is attained through a choice human beings make, but is a gift given freely by God. We Lutherans specifically believe grace is impossible for flawed human nature to accept, but is given to us by "means of grace," such as the sacraments of the eucharist (which can be given at any age), and the Lord's Supper - this specific belief can differ from denomination to denomination, but that's okay. So, no, not a whole lot of claims of having born again experiences among us. For myself, baptised as an infant and raised in the church, there was never I time when I didn't consider myself a believer.
Also, most mainline Protestants adhere to both eccumenical creeds such as the Nicene and Aptostolic creeds, as well as to specific creeds expounding their specific theology. Evangelicals usually are anti-creedal.
As far as "following the evengel" - It's commonly felt evangelicals have usurped the words evangelical and evangel, and so mainline Protestants rarely use those terms. Though the other major Lutheran body refers to itself as the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
Case in point, when Trump, who claims to be a Presbyterian, met with Presbyterian theologians, referred to them as evangelicals. When they corrected him and said they were mainline Protestants not evangelicals, a stunned Trump had asked: "But you're Christians, aren't you?"


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22 Mar 2018, 1:59 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Re: "Prosperity gospel." This thread is the first place I've ever heard that term or of these people. Is this like a super localized regional capitalist practice of Christianity? :?


It an be found virtually anywhere, but is mostly practised by evangelical and Pentecostal churches in the more conservative areas. There are exceptions, though, as a major prosperity gospel church is located in liberal Seattle.


Like anywhere globally or anywhere USA?


I tend to think they can usually be found in conservative red states.


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22 Mar 2018, 2:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Re: "Prosperity gospel." This thread is the first place I've ever heard that term or of these people. Is this like a super localized regional capitalist practice of Christianity? :?


It an be found virtually anywhere, but is mostly practised by evangelical and Pentecostal churches in the more conservative areas. There are exceptions, though, as a major prosperity gospel church is located in liberal Seattle.


Like anywhere globally or anywhere USA?


I tend to think they can usually be found in conservative red states.


Aaaah, places I've never really been and that don't yet have internet connections so haven't really heard from those people online. :P


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22 Mar 2018, 3:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Case in point, when Trump, who claims to be a Presbyterian, met with Presbyterian theologians, referred to them as evangelicals. When they corrected him and said they were mainline Protestants not evangelicals, a stunned Trump had asked: "But you're Christians, aren't you?"

Fits the usual pattern Trump follows...would love to see him speaking in tongues



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22 Mar 2018, 3:21 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Case in point, when Trump, who claims to be a Presbyterian, met with Presbyterian theologians, referred to them as evangelicals. When they corrected him and said they were mainline Protestants not evangelicals, a stunned Trump had asked: "But you're Christians, aren't you?"

Fits the usual pattern Trump follows...would love to see him speaking in tongues


I'd rather see him speaking in jail. :)


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22 Mar 2018, 3:32 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Case in point, when Trump, who claims to be a Presbyterian, met with Presbyterian theologians, referred to them as evangelicals. When they corrected him and said they were mainline Protestants not evangelicals, a stunned Trump had asked: "But you're Christians, aren't you?"

Fits the usual pattern Trump follows...would love to see him speaking in tongues


I'd rather see him speaking in jail. :)


Patience...the Russian investigation is continuing



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22 Mar 2018, 3:49 pm

cyberdad wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Case in point, when Trump, who claims to be a Presbyterian, met with Presbyterian theologians, referred to them as evangelicals. When they corrected him and said they were mainline Protestants not evangelicals, a stunned Trump had asked: "But you're Christians, aren't you?"

Fits the usual pattern Trump follows...would love to see him speaking in tongues


I'd rather see him speaking in jail. :)


Patience...the Russian investigation is continuing


:heart:

Jail would suffice, but it would be beyond amazing to see all of these dirt bags lose all their money, too.


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22 Mar 2018, 4:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Case in point, when Trump, who claims to be a Presbyterian, met with Presbyterian theologians, referred to them as evangelicals. When they corrected him and said they were mainline Protestants not evangelicals, a stunned Trump had asked: "But you're Christians, aren't you?"

Fits the usual pattern Trump follows...would love to see him speaking in tongues


Probably. There's a photo of Trump surrounded by evangelicals laying their hands on him and praying.


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22 Mar 2018, 8:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sure, evangelicals aren't the only religious group to attract bad seeds. But bad evangelicals seem to be the ones getting the most attention, presumably because there is less centralization to reign them in within churches on the religious right.


Don't most protestant denominations consist of the religious right? How many left Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal etc. churches are there in comparison to right?


The religious right is mostly made up of evangelicals (Baptists and Pentecostals, and related faiths). Most conservative Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc, tend to still be counted as mainline Protestants. That's because evangelicals look on mainline denominations as errant in regard to infant baptism (rather than adult believers baptism), for seeing the book of Revelations as a minor book mostly about the early church rather than future events, that a born again experience is required for faith to be legit, liturgical worship, etc. Kind of hard to get on with people who say you're chosen faith doesn't cut the mustard with God. That, and many evangelicals have become too intertwined in worldly politics at the expense of the Gospel, after becoming coopeted by the secular right.


This is getting confusing because evangelical, mainline, conservative and right are all synonymous far as I know. Mainline (non-catholic) Christianity consists of conservative right evangelicals. Things like infant baptism and preterism aren't a part of mainline Christian theology. As far as being born again goes, what denomination consists of unborn again Christians? And what mainline denomination doesn't follow the evangel?


Since when? Are evangelicals now claiming to be mainline, now? If so, then the rest of us certainly haven't given that claim any credence. Because, yes, infant baptism is very much practiced by mainline Protestants, as it's a common practice among Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, Congregationalists, and others.
As far as being "born again" is concerned: most mainline Protestant theology doesn't believe grace is attained through a choice human beings make, but is a gift given freely by God. We Lutherans specifically believe grace is impossible for flawed human nature to accept, but is given to us by "means of grace," such as the sacraments of the eucharist (which can be given at any age), and the Lord's Supper - this specific belief can differ from denomination to denomination, but that's okay. So, no, not a whole lot of claims of having born again experiences among us. For myself, baptised as an infant and raised in the church, there was never I time when I didn't consider myself a believer.
Also, most mainline Protestants adhere to both eccumenical creeds such as the Nicene and Aptostolic creeds, as well as to specific creeds expounding their specific theology. Evangelicals usually are anti-creedal.
As far as "following the evengel" - It's commonly felt evangelicals have usurped the words evangelical and evangel, and so mainline Protestants rarely use those terms. Though the other major Lutheran body refers to itself as the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
Case in point, when Trump, who claims to be a Presbyterian, met with Presbyterian theologians, referred to them as evangelicals. When they corrected him and said they were mainline Protestants not evangelicals, a stunned Trump had asked: "But you're Christians, aren't you?"


Well I believe I have shown that I'm not entirely ignorant regarding christianity. But I also don't know the difference like I know the difference between something like calvinist and arminian. I was thinking along the lines that you were equating evangelical with charismatic. Really this conversation between us has become me seeking a better understanding. So I'll look into it more.