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Kraichgauer
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25 Sep 2019, 11:42 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Then "grief" had suddenly turned back to "grife." I'm not calling you a liar, just making an observation about computer sites.


I made a typo as I said and then I corrected it. I make lots of typos and grammar errors due to my dyslexia and overall severe cognitive disabilities. It often takes me several tries to get it all sorted out to make a clean post.

Kraichgauer wrote:
The difference is, I never used Rand as an example of what life should be, but as what we must prevent it from becoming.


THX 1138 is a deception of a dystopian society where the government micromanages peoples lives, not a depiction of what life should be, but what we must prevent it from becoming. In other words I used it the same way you just said you use Rand even though "Uh..., that's a movie. It's not real." just as Atlas Shrugged is just a book it's not real.


Sure, Atlas Shrugged is just a book. The problem is, there are millions of right wing libertarians who regard it as their Bible and blue print for what they see as the future.


Sure THX 1138 is just a movie that depicts a world where society is dependent upon a government that micromanages their lives. The problem is, there are millions of left wing liberals who want to see that type of world become a reality whether they realize it or not.

They don't see anything suspicious regarding a system where wealthy elite politicians take control of businesses and take control of what people are allowed to consume, say, do and think - actually believing that system of government is going to benefit them. They don't see anything suspicious in an ideology that vilifies such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.


What you call government taking control of businesses is a matter of regulations insuring the safety of consumers and workers. And yes, those regulations are for our good. On top of that, it was a Republican President, Teddy Roosevelt, who had been the first to institute such regulations to protect the little guy against the wealthy business and political elite.


Perhaps Teddy did not see that there are wealthy elite politicians who would take regulation to extremes in the guise of helping the little guy. Democrats/liberals/left-wingers taking control of everything is not going to eliminate the wealthy elite dominating the little guy, it is going to actually facilitate greater domination and control.

It would be nice if these wealthy elite politicians who are backed by billionaires were the altruistic bunch you have been fooled into believing they are, but they are actually a sleazy bunch offering candy to children to gain their trust.


And go back to the days when workers and consumers played Russian roulette with life and death from the production and use of often hazardous products? Because that's exactly what we'd return to. No thanks. Big business is not your friend. The people who protect you from big business are.


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26 Sep 2019, 1:04 am

...I lost another draft :cry: . My life sucks. :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: : :cry: :cry: :cry: : :cry:
I we glad the Wi-Fi here was fixed :cry: so spent SO MUCH :cry: time putting what I thought were interesting posts up :cry: and I lost them :cry:. A life spits in my face again :cry.


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EzraS
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26 Sep 2019, 1:47 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Then "grief" had suddenly turned back to "grife." I'm not calling you a liar, just making an observation about computer sites.


I made a typo as I said and then I corrected it. I make lots of typos and grammar errors due to my dyslexia and overall severe cognitive disabilities. It often takes me several tries to get it all sorted out to make a clean post.

Kraichgauer wrote:
The difference is, I never used Rand as an example of what life should be, but as what we must prevent it from becoming.


THX 1138 is a deception of a dystopian society where the government micromanages peoples lives, not a depiction of what life should be, but what we must prevent it from becoming. In other words I used it the same way you just said you use Rand even though "Uh..., that's a movie. It's not real." just as Atlas Shrugged is just a book it's not real.


Sure, Atlas Shrugged is just a book. The problem is, there are millions of right wing libertarians who regard it as their Bible and blue print for what they see as the future.


Sure THX 1138 is just a movie that depicts a world where society is dependent upon a government that micromanages their lives. The problem is, there are millions of left wing liberals who want to see that type of world become a reality whether they realize it or not.

They don't see anything suspicious regarding a system where wealthy elite politicians take control of businesses and take control of what people are allowed to consume, say, do and think - actually believing that system of government is going to benefit them. They don't see anything suspicious in an ideology that vilifies such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.


What you call government taking control of businesses is a matter of regulations insuring the safety of consumers and workers. And yes, those regulations are for our good. On top of that, it was a Republican President, Teddy Roosevelt, who had been the first to institute such regulations to protect the little guy against the wealthy business and political elite.


Perhaps Teddy did not see that there are wealthy elite politicians who would take regulation to extremes in the guise of helping the little guy. Democrats/liberals/left-wingers taking control of everything is not going to eliminate the wealthy elite dominating the little guy, it is going to actually facilitate greater domination and control.

It would be nice if these wealthy elite politicians who are backed by billionaires were the altruistic bunch you have been fooled into believing they are, but they are actually a sleazy bunch offering candy to children to gain their trust.


And go back to the days when workers and consumers played Russian roulette with life and death from the production and use of often hazardous products? Because that's exactly what we'd return to. No thanks. Big business is not your friend. The people who protect you from big business are.


What about all the big business that's run by liberals and non-conservatives? You just said it was a republican president who instituted those safeguards. A Big Brother government pretending to protect me by regulating what I consume, say, do and think is not my friend.



Kraichgauer
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26 Sep 2019, 2:11 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Then "grief" had suddenly turned back to "grife." I'm not calling you a liar, just making an observation about computer sites.


I made a typo as I said and then I corrected it. I make lots of typos and grammar errors due to my dyslexia and overall severe cognitive disabilities. It often takes me several tries to get it all sorted out to make a clean post.

Kraichgauer wrote:
The difference is, I never used Rand as an example of what life should be, but as what we must prevent it from becoming.


THX 1138 is a deception of a dystopian society where the government micromanages peoples lives, not a depiction of what life should be, but what we must prevent it from becoming. In other words I used it the same way you just said you use Rand even though "Uh..., that's a movie. It's not real." just as Atlas Shrugged is just a book it's not real.


Sure, Atlas Shrugged is just a book. The problem is, there are millions of right wing libertarians who regard it as their Bible and blue print for what they see as the future.


Sure THX 1138 is just a movie that depicts a world where society is dependent upon a government that micromanages their lives. The problem is, there are millions of left wing liberals who want to see that type of world become a reality whether they realize it or not.

They don't see anything suspicious regarding a system where wealthy elite politicians take control of businesses and take control of what people are allowed to consume, say, do and think - actually believing that system of government is going to benefit them. They don't see anything suspicious in an ideology that vilifies such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.


What you call government taking control of businesses is a matter of regulations insuring the safety of consumers and workers. And yes, those regulations are for our good. On top of that, it was a Republican President, Teddy Roosevelt, who had been the first to institute such regulations to protect the little guy against the wealthy business and political elite.


Perhaps Teddy did not see that there are wealthy elite politicians who would take regulation to extremes in the guise of helping the little guy. Democrats/liberals/left-wingers taking control of everything is not going to eliminate the wealthy elite dominating the little guy, it is going to actually facilitate greater domination and control.

It would be nice if these wealthy elite politicians who are backed by billionaires were the altruistic bunch you have been fooled into believing they are, but they are actually a sleazy bunch offering candy to children to gain their trust.


And go back to the days when workers and consumers played Russian roulette with life and death from the production and use of often hazardous products? Because that's exactly what we'd return to. No thanks. Big business is not your friend. The people who protect you from big business are.


What about all the big business that's run by liberals and non-conservatives? You just said it was a republican president who instituted those safeguards. A Big Brother government pretending to protect me by regulating what I consume, say, do and think is not my friend.


Roosevelt was a progressive Republican. That was in the days when there were liberal and conservative Republicans, and liberal and conservative (mostly in the south) Democrats. The GOP went full conservative when they swallowed up the white southern Democrats during the civil rights era and Nixon and Reagan years, just as the Dems went liberal almost entirely with the civil rights matter.
Back in Theodore Roosevelt's day, all the big business elite were to the right, as most are today. In fact, conservatives in Roosevelt's own party hated him for his progressive reforms.


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26 Sep 2019, 2:55 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Then "grief" had suddenly turned back to "grife." I'm not calling you a liar, just making an observation about computer sites.


I made a typo as I said and then I corrected it. I make lots of typos and grammar errors due to my dyslexia and overall severe cognitive disabilities. It often takes me several tries to get it all sorted out to make a clean post.

Kraichgauer wrote:
The difference is, I never used Rand as an example of what life should be, but as what we must prevent it from becoming.


THX 1138 is a deception of a dystopian society where the government micromanages peoples lives, not a depiction of what life should be, but what we must prevent it from becoming. In other words I used it the same way you just said you use Rand even though "Uh..., that's a movie. It's not real." just as Atlas Shrugged is just a book it's not real.


Sure, Atlas Shrugged is just a book. The problem is, there are millions of right wing libertarians who regard it as their Bible and blue print for what they see as the future.


Sure THX 1138 is just a movie that depicts a world where society is dependent upon a government that micromanages their lives. The problem is, there are millions of left wing liberals who want to see that type of world become a reality whether they realize it or not.

They don't see anything suspicious regarding a system where wealthy elite politicians take control of businesses and take control of what people are allowed to consume, say, do and think - actually believing that system of government is going to benefit them. They don't see anything suspicious in an ideology that vilifies such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.






...You throw around " elite " a bit to describe politicians you don't like. So does that mean that a politician whose opinions you like is NOT " elite "? That is the your definition of the term?
Many Republicans/conservatives have thrown around the phrase " elite " ( and some leftover folk) just as a " Boooo! "-provoking phrase/to indicate someone they don't like.
Is the opposite of An Elitist a person who's a Person Of The People? And if a politician whom you consider ed AE wanted to become a OITP, how could he redeem himself in your vision?
And do you REALLY think that only politicians you dislike are backed by billionaires :lol: ? It could seem that you feel that 8O .


_________________
Renal kidney failure, congestive heart failure, COPD. Can't really get up from a floor position unhelped anymore:-(.
One of the walking wounded ~ SMASHED DOWN by life and age, now prevented from even expressing myself! SOB.
" Oh, no! First you have to PROVE you deserve to go away to college! " ~ My mother, 1978 (the heyday of Andy Gibb and Player). I would still like to go.:-(
My life destroyed by Thorazine and Mellaril - and rape - and the Psychiatric/Industrial Complex. SOB:-(! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!


EzraS
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26 Sep 2019, 4:47 am

ASS-P wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Then "grief" had suddenly turned back to "grife." I'm not calling you a liar, just making an observation about computer sites.


I made a typo as I said and then I corrected it. I make lots of typos and grammar errors due to my dyslexia and overall severe cognitive disabilities. It often takes me several tries to get it all sorted out to make a clean post.

Kraichgauer wrote:
The difference is, I never used Rand as an example of what life should be, but as what we must prevent it from becoming.


THX 1138 is a deception of a dystopian society where the government micromanages peoples lives, not a depiction of what life should be, but what we must prevent it from becoming. In other words I used it the same way you just said you use Rand even though "Uh..., that's a movie. It's not real." just as Atlas Shrugged is just a book it's not real.


Sure, Atlas Shrugged is just a book. The problem is, there are millions of right wing libertarians who regard it as their Bible and blue print for what they see as the future.


Sure THX 1138 is just a movie that depicts a world where society is dependent upon a government that micromanages their lives. The problem is, there are millions of left wing liberals who want to see that type of world become a reality whether they realize it or not.

They don't see anything suspicious regarding a system where wealthy elite politicians take control of businesses and take control of what people are allowed to consume, say, do and think - actually believing that system of government is going to benefit them. They don't see anything suspicious in an ideology that vilifies such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.






...You throw around " elite " a bit to describe politicians you don't like. So does that mean that a politician whose opinions you like is NOT " elite "? That is the your definition of the term?
Many Republicans/conservatives have thrown around the phrase " elite " ( and some leftover folk) just as a " Boooo! "-provoking phrase/to indicate someone they don't like.
Is the opposite of An Elitist a person who's a Person Of The People? And if a politician whom you consider ed AE wanted to become a OITP, how could he redeem himself in your vision?
And do you REALLY think that only politicians you dislike are backed by billionaires :lol: ? It could seem that you feel that 8O .


In my opinion Bill (Kraichgauer) emphasizes conservative republicans in power as being the wealthy elite. I am pointing out that the liberal democrats in charge are also the wealthy elite. That even though they are supposed to be all about equality, they most certainly do not consider him an equal. I seriously doubt our Bill (Kraichgauer) could arrage to have lunch with any of them. But if he were Bill Gates they'd fall all over themselves to attend.



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26 Sep 2019, 9:54 am

EzraS wrote:
Now we're seeing little kids as young as 5 years old being arrested as a result of their whole political correctness, zero tolerance, everything is a crime agenda.

If you are referring to this story, see this update. Apparently the 5 year old did not actually get arrested or even disciplined in any way.


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EzraS
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26 Sep 2019, 10:17 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Now we're seeing little kids as young as 5 years old being arrested as a result of their whole political correctness, zero tolerance, everything is a crime agenda.

If you are referring to this story, see this update. Apparently the 5 year old did not actually get arrested or even disciplined in any way.


There's more than one of these types of cases. Even if a little kid is not arrested over a PC crime, the mentally regarding such innocuous things is concerning. I heard on the radio that some schools are implementing a zero tolerance policy keeping children from calling another student their best friend or any variation thereof. The list of things liberals label some kind of crime or a serious infraction is just going to keep getting longer.



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26 Sep 2019, 10:26 am

I wish "some schools" wouldn't do this.

I find banning kids from saying someone's their "best friend" is something which lacks common sense.

Lots of this PC stuff lacks common sense.



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26 Sep 2019, 11:01 am

EzraS wrote:
My comment was more sarcastic or satirical rather than analytical. However, a system of government that wanted to implement total control of society, would likely make itself appealing to the more needy, vulnerable and manipulatable members of society. It would want people to be under the influence of alcohol, drugs, sleep deprivation etc.

Where is your evidence of the existence of any significant political force that wants people to be under the influence of alcohol and drugs?

As for sleep deprivation, while no one specifically wants to deprive people of sleep as an end in itself, most employers, in the absence of laws requiring overtime pay, do find it more convenient to hire fewer workers and make them work longer hours. The one major social movement that has historically stood against sleep deprivation has been labor unions, which are unfortunately weak these days.

EzraS wrote:
And would vilify such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.

Spoken by a person who is hardly in any position at all to be "self-reliant." You do realize that the right wing doesn't exactly want to make life any easier for disabled people such as yourself, don't you? And that a great many of your own rights have been won by the disability rights movement, which is necessarily part of a left-wing coalition?


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26 Sep 2019, 11:03 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
You do realize that the right wing doesn't exactly want to make life any easier for disabled people such as yourself, don't you? And that a great many of your own rights have been won by the disability rights movement, which is necessarily part of a left-wing coalition?


Get ready for 20 pages of rebuttal :lol:



EzraS
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26 Sep 2019, 11:45 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
EzraS wrote:
My comment was more sarcastic or satirical rather than analytical. However, a system of government that wanted to implement total control of society, would likely make itself appealing to the more needy, vulnerable and manipulatable members of society. It would want people to be under the influence of alcohol, drugs, sleep deprivation etc.

Where is your evidence of the existence of any significant political force that wants people to be under the influence of alcohol and drugs?


I was stating my personal surmisal of how I think system of government that wanted to implement total control of society would operate. What sort of evidence is required regarding surmising?

Mona Pereth wrote:
As for sleep deprivation, while no one specifically wants to deprive people of sleep as an end in itself, most employers, in the absence of laws requiring overtime pay, do find it more convenient to hire fewer workers and make them work longer hours. The one major social movement that has historically stood against sleep deprivation has been labor unions, which are unfortunately weak these days.


My comment regarding sleep deprivation was in regard to some exchanges between Kraichgauer and myself. You are going to have to absorb the entire conversation to gain the context.



Mona Pereth wrote:
EzraS wrote:
And would vilify such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.
Spoken by a person who is hardly in any position at all to be "self-reliant."


Quite the contrary personal responsibility and self reliance has brought me a long ways from where I started out. That is where my attitude about it comes from. As I have written about already. It's like you just grabbed one post I made without knowing the rest of what I have said regarding these matters.

Mona Pereth wrote:
You do realize that the right wing doesn't exactly want to make life any easier for disabled people such as yourself, don't you? And that a great many of your own rights have been won by the disability rights movement, which is necessarily part of a left-wing coalition?


That was then, this is now. The direction they are headed in now of wanting to micromanage society is what I have a problem with.



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26 Sep 2019, 1:27 pm

Much of the time when the right talks about "elites," they are referring to intellectuals, academics, artists, those in the entertainment industry, etc, as opposed to those they give false praise to, such as small businessmen, farmers, cops, laborers, etc. At the same time, when the right have a wealthy candidate who is of the real elites, they attack anyone on the opposite side criticizing then as communists, or having class envy.
And for the record, I have no illusions about not being able to get a lunch date with Bill Gates, or any other rich liberal.


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26 Sep 2019, 1:32 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
EzraS wrote:
My comment was more sarcastic or satirical rather than analytical. However, a system of government that wanted to implement total control of society, would likely make itself appealing to the more needy, vulnerable and manipulatable members of society. It would want people to be under the influence of alcohol, drugs, sleep deprivation etc.

Where is your evidence of the existence of any significant political force that wants people to be under the influence of alcohol and drugs?

As for sleep deprivation, while no one specifically wants to deprive people of sleep as an end in itself, most employers, in the absence of laws requiring overtime pay, do find it more convenient to hire fewer workers and make them work longer hours. The one major social movement that has historically stood against sleep deprivation has been labor unions, which are unfortunately weak these days.

EzraS wrote:
And would vilify such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.

Spoken by a person who is hardly in any position at all to be "self-reliant." You do realize that the right wing doesn't exactly want to make life any easier for disabled people such as yourself, don't you? And that a great many of your own rights have been won by the disability rights movement, which is necessarily part of a left-wing coalition?


Ezra was actually making a personal attack on me, because as a writer I tend to suffer from insomnia (hence I write at night), and I tend to enjoy my beer.


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26 Sep 2019, 1:42 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Much of the time when the right talks about "elites," they are referring to intellectuals, academics, artists, those in the entertainment industry, etc, as opposed to those they give false praise to, such as small businessmen, farmers, cops, laborers, etc. At the same time, when the right have a wealthy candidate who is of the real elites, they attack anyone on the opposite side criticizing then as communists, or having class envy.


The elites I speak of are the democrats who hold a large amount of wealth, privilege and political power. I point it out to dispel the notion that description only applies to republican politicians. Filthy rich, highly privileged, power hungry liberal democrat politicians who live in mansions, ride in limousines and have a wardrobe that cost more than most families earn in a year.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And for the record, I have no illusions about not being able to get a lunch date with Bill Gates, or any other rich liberal.


That's not what I said, read it again.



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26 Sep 2019, 2:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
EzraS wrote:
My comment was more sarcastic or satirical rather than analytical. However, a system of government that wanted to implement total control of society, would likely make itself appealing to the more needy, vulnerable and manipulatable members of society. It would want people to be under the influence of alcohol, drugs, sleep deprivation etc.

Where is your evidence of the existence of any significant political force that wants people to be under the influence of alcohol and drugs?

As for sleep deprivation, while no one specifically wants to deprive people of sleep as an end in itself, most employers, in the absence of laws requiring overtime pay, do find it more convenient to hire fewer workers and make them work longer hours. The one major social movement that has historically stood against sleep deprivation has been labor unions, which are unfortunately weak these days.

EzraS wrote:
And would vilify such concepts as personal responsibility and self reliance.

Spoken by a person who is hardly in any position at all to be "self-reliant." You do realize that the right wing doesn't exactly want to make life any easier for disabled people such as yourself, don't you? And that a great many of your own rights have been won by the disability rights movement, which is necessarily part of a left-wing coalition?


Ezra was actually making a personal attack on me, because as a writer I tend to suffer from insomnia (hence I write at night), and I tend to enjoy my beer.


You talk about drinking and being a sleep deprived insomniac a lot. I suggested alcohol consumption is possibly the reason for your insomnia and that you should look into it. I was a bit aggravated because I was getting tired of the number of times you have misread my posts, but the suggestion was sincere nonetheless.