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Oregon Plan to Undo "Racism in Mathematics".

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Fnord
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18 Feb 2021, 1:54 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Fnord wrote:
My point is that just because most of the major discoveries in mathematics in the last few hundred years have happened in Europe and the West, that does not what renders the teaching of mathematics racist in the least -- it is the teachers' own racial prejudices (including the teachers trying to "De-Race-Ify" maths).  This also supports my assertion of the parallelism between the "De-Race-ify Maths" movement in America and the "De-Colonial-Ize Science" in South Africa -- it is not the origins of Science and maths that make them difficult for some people to learn them, it is the way they are taught.
That is not what the science says. Representation in a subject does impact who excels at the subject. The has also been shown in science and engineering.
What "representation"?  I do not get what you mean.  Do you mean, for example, saying that Sir Isaac Newton was an Englishman somehow intimidate children from Mexico into believing that they can never be good at maths?  Seriously, I am asking.
In a nutshell, yes. But it is deeper.  It is not one person, but when a field is dominated by a group, then you implicitly think that being a mathematician is for white men.  The dynamics are more complex, people just don't see themselves there, but also people bringing in others into the field are influenced by this.  This is why the bias is implicit, not explicit.  This has been measured and there is evidence.
So (for instance) if a child does not see people like him represented as heroes in movies, but only as villains, then he will grow up with the impression that he could never be heroic, and turn to criminal behavior ... or something like that?  I think it is called "Imprinting" -- you believe you are what "society" presents about people like you.  If this is the case, then one thing maths teachers could do is focus solely on the methods and not the history of maths.  Why should anyone be forced to care who came up with the formula for solving quadratic equations as long as they know how to use it?
It is not that simple, but it is. Stereotypes are powerful because they do color our world. If I say think about the image of a mathematician, you will create a person, most likely male, probably white, maybe Asian, maybe old with glasses. If I say drug smuggler, do you see the same person? Identification with people is an important driver in what possibilities they select. It could be with fields they want to enter or how they react to people. And if you need to chose a colleague, how do these stereotypes color that?  This is a well known problem in the autism community. Ask an adult women about getting a diagnosis. You will find women rejected because she does not meet a stereotype, rather than a diagnosis.  And of of this is subtle--the doctors doesn't think he is reacting to a stereotype, but his professional judgement. The concept of nudge or nudging is well known where you have a, for example, a public health campaign. You don't convince people, but send out subtle message to slightly alter their behavior. Finding a particular person that has been changed is hard to do, but you can see the effect on a population. Advertising works, even if it does not work on you (or you think it does not work on you--give it time). Implicit biases are a bunch of subtle nudges altering our behavior.  Of all the movies I have seen with mathematicians as a main character, they have all been male. Only one where the character is not European or of European decent. The Man Who Knew Infinity is a good movie BTW. That matters.
Then we need more movies like "Hidden Figures" (2016), "The story of a team of female African-American mathematicians who served a vital role in NASA during the early years of the U.S. space program."


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18 Feb 2021, 1:56 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
Ah yes, that great European mathematician Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi that is credited with inventing algebra. Lets not forget the Chinese contribution starting around 300BC. I think you will find the first instance of a zero from Mesopotamia around 3BC and independently discovered with the Mayans in 4AD. And naturally, you won't find non-Europeans in the list of Fields Medal winners, in the case of more contemporary examples. And lets not forget the British mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan in the 20th century.

I actually learned about all that as a kid. I don't remember if it was all in school, but most of it probably was. I'm not sure if I learned about of any of it in math class though. Most of it was probably in history class instead, and it's all really a history thing in the end. Though I think it's just as appropriate to be taught in math class too, not too different from literature being taught in English classes, for example. "Meta-subjects" have their place in any curriculum.

That's "what gets to be taught in math classes" though, not so much "how math itself is taught in math classes". It's related, but not the same thing.


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18 Feb 2021, 2:27 pm

Fnord wrote:
Then we need more movies like "Hidden Figures" (2016), "The story of a team of female African-American mathematicians who served a vital role in NASA during the early years of the U.S. space program."

We probably do. Another story that comes to mind is this:



Those aren't just monumentally significant, they're interesting.

I just don't look forward to the public commotion the day the logical thing is done about it: government subsidies for (good) productions of that type... :skull:


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Fnord
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18 Feb 2021, 4:58 pm

toadsnail wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Then we need more movies like "Hidden Figures" (2016), "The story of a team of female African-American mathematicians who served a vital role in NASA during the early years of the U.S. space program."
We probably do. ... I just don't look forward to the public commotion the day the logical thing is done about it: government subsidies for (good) productions of that type... :skull:
Gach, no!  If it is is subsidized by the Right, I would expect it to emphasize (and possibly exaggerate) the role of one corporate white guy; while if the Left subsidizes it, then I would expect it to emphasize diversity to such an extent that diversity would become the sole raison d'être for the entire production (Plot?  What plot?).


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Jiheisho
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18 Feb 2021, 5:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Fnord wrote:
My point is that just because most of the major discoveries in mathematics in the last few hundred years have happened in Europe and the West, that does not what renders the teaching of mathematics racist in the least -- it is the teachers' own racial prejudices (including the teachers trying to "De-Race-Ify" maths).  This also supports my assertion of the parallelism between the "De-Race-ify Maths" movement in America and the "De-Colonial-Ize Science" in South Africa -- it is not the origins of Science and maths that make them difficult for some people to learn them, it is the way they are taught.
That is not what the science says. Representation in a subject does impact who excels at the subject. The has also been shown in science and engineering.
What "representation"?  I do not get what you mean.  Do you mean, for example, saying that Sir Isaac Newton was an Englishman somehow intimidate children from Mexico into believing that they can never be good at maths?  Seriously, I am asking.
In a nutshell, yes. But it is deeper.  It is not one person, but when a field is dominated by a group, then you implicitly think that being a mathematician is for white men.  The dynamics are more complex, people just don't see themselves there, but also people bringing in others into the field are influenced by this.  This is why the bias is implicit, not explicit.  This has been measured and there is evidence.
So (for instance) if a child does not see people like him represented as heroes in movies, but only as villains, then he will grow up with the impression that he could never be heroic, and turn to criminal behavior ... or something like that?  I think it is called "Imprinting" -- you believe you are what "society" presents about people like you.  If this is the case, then one thing maths teachers could do is focus solely on the methods and not the history of maths.  Why should anyone be forced to care who came up with the formula for solving quadratic equations as long as they know how to use it?
It is not that simple, but it is. Stereotypes are powerful because they do color our world. If I say think about the image of a mathematician, you will create a person, most likely male, probably white, maybe Asian, maybe old with glasses. If I say drug smuggler, do you see the same person? Identification with people is an important driver in what possibilities they select. It could be with fields they want to enter or how they react to people. And if you need to chose a colleague, how do these stereotypes color that?  This is a well known problem in the autism community. Ask an adult women about getting a diagnosis. You will find women rejected because she does not meet a stereotype, rather than a diagnosis.  And of of this is subtle--the doctors doesn't think he is reacting to a stereotype, but his professional judgement. The concept of nudge or nudging is well known where you have a, for example, a public health campaign. You don't convince people, but send out subtle message to slightly alter their behavior. Finding a particular person that has been changed is hard to do, but you can see the effect on a population. Advertising works, even if it does not work on you (or you think it does not work on you--give it time). Implicit biases are a bunch of subtle nudges altering our behavior.  Of all the movies I have seen with mathematicians as a main character, they have all been male. Only one where the character is not European or of European decent. The Man Who Knew Infinity is a good movie BTW. That matters.
Then we need more movies like "Hidden Figures" (2016), "The story of a team of female African-American mathematicians who served a vital role in NASA during the early years of the U.S. space program."

Great movie and I forgot about it! See, it is a thing...



Fnord
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18 Feb 2021, 5:20 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
Great movie and I forgot about it!  See, it is a thing...
All I needed was for you (and others) to explain the concept.  Why are there not more people like you?


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Deinonychus
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18 Feb 2021, 6:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
Gach, no!  If it is is subsidized by the Right, I would expect it to emphasize (and possibly exaggerate) the role of one corporate white guy; while if the Left subsidizes it, then I would expect it to emphasize diversity to such an extent that diversity would become the sole raison d'être for the entire production (Plot?  What plot?).[/color]

Yeah, you're probably right... It might work elsewhere, but probably not in the US. If it's just left to "the market" though, then chances are it just becomes (or stays) a matter of "wokeness" and fads. Not helpful. I wonder what could really be done to encourage more good-quality productions (movies, but other things too) like those to be made.


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18 Feb 2021, 6:18 pm

I think the Oregon educators have it wrong, the "history of math" is racist rather than the theories.

Almost all education in math overlooks that much of algebra and other concepts like zero used by the Greeks likely arose in the Indian subcontinent (rather than from the Greek Pythagoras and Euclides).

The ancient Egyptians and Mayans clearly had advanced knowledge of math that informs architecture, building and astronomy which predates Europe.

Even stone aged Polynesians have been demonstrated to have an understanding of advanced calculus when making stone structures called megaliths which have been falsely attributed to a toga wearing Greek drinking wine while in a bathtub.



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18 Feb 2021, 6:40 pm

Does this knee-jerk blanket labeling of minorities as "victims of racism" in itself qualify as racism???


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Jiheisho
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18 Feb 2021, 7:08 pm

old_comedywriter wrote:
Does this knee-jerk blanket labeling of minorities as "victims of racism" in itself qualify as racism???


Only if it is not supported by evidence.



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18 Feb 2021, 7:47 pm

They should be looking at improving teaching methods to get the best out of students of any race when it comes to mathematical ability . That would be far more useful than the intellectual dead end that is 'Racism in Mathematics'.


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kraftiekortie
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18 Feb 2021, 9:20 pm

They should be encouraging correct answers—from all races and ethnicities—and not assuming that emphasis on correct answers is racist.



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18 Feb 2021, 9:21 pm

firemonkey wrote:
They should be looking at improving teaching methods to get the best out of students of any race when it comes to mathematical ability . That would be far more useful than the intellectual dead end that is 'Racism in Mathematics'.


Agreed, that would make much more sense.



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18 Feb 2021, 9:22 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
They should be encouraging correct answers—from all races and ethnicities—and not assuming that emphasis on correct answers is racist.


I think somebody got the wrong end of the argument and constructed a claim around that.



kraftiekortie
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18 Feb 2021, 9:24 pm

They’re talking about making kids “show their work,” without the expectation that they get the correct answer.

They’re doing this in spelling, too, I hear.



cyberdad
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18 Feb 2021, 9:27 pm

So has it got to do with reading comprehension/question types?