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Black Lives Matter plan to 'completely dismantle' society

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Cornflake
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05 Jul 2021, 6:19 am

Pepe wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Some observations:

1.) I had posted earlier that, in the name of civility, WP should ban links to "news" organizations connected in any way with the Murdoch Organization.
This sort of censorship would make WP a publisher, and not a platform, I believe.
You're acting as a Sky News (aka Fox) republisher here so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make - especially that, as a private site operating on its own conditions of membership, WP (as Alex) can allow or disallow whatever it wants.

Also, MaxE has a point - why anyone would willingly consume poison is a mystery.


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Nades
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05 Jul 2021, 6:30 am

Cornflake wrote:
Pepe wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Some observations:

1.) I had posted earlier that, in the name of civility, WP should ban links to "news" organizations connected in any way with the Murdoch Organization.
This sort of censorship would make WP a publisher, and not a platform, I believe.
You're acting as a Sky News (aka Fox) republisher here so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make - especially that, as a private site operating on its own conditions of membership, WP (as Alex) can allow or disallow whatever it wants.

Also, MaxE has a point - why anyone would willingly consume poison is a mystery.


I'm not tuned into US law at all but I thought public platforms needed to be impartial to be considered a public platform? Otherwise it's not really public and considered more of a site owners platform?



Cornflake
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05 Jul 2021, 6:32 am

^ AFAIK a privately owned site can be anything it wants to be and represent whatever it wants in whatever manner it chooses. (although obviously, topics barred by law will temper that - CP, for example)


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05 Jul 2021, 6:33 am

Nades wrote:
magz wrote:
I think we should keep in mind that even within "the West", different countries have different histories and different sets of social issues stemming from it.


Yup. BLM to many here is the equivalent of going into a trailer park full of poor white families in the US and calling them privileged racists.

It's just a massive no no and very abrasive but people actually do that here.

Here, people seem much more "color blind" than they appear in the US, so the killings that trigger BLM protests are like, what, something like this happening in a country that calls itself civilized? 8O

Opinions on BLM itself are divisive, my own opinion is that the protests are exceptionally badly handled - US police really needs to learn de-escalation techniques. Not everything can be solved by more bullying.


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Nades
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05 Jul 2021, 6:39 am

Cornflake wrote:
^ AFAIK a privately owned site can be anything it wants to be and represent whatever it wants in whatever manner it chooses. (although obviously, topics barred by law will temper that - CP, for example)


Perhaps it's only for very large websites, but I thought that doing that makes the owners liable for the content on the website even if posted by another user without the owners knowledge.

Censorship of users is still publishing the owners opinions by proxy if the censorship is overbearing.



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05 Jul 2021, 6:43 am

^ I don't think that's globally true, a universal given - for example, WP's Terms of Use state: "As a registered member, you are held solely and personally responsible for any libelous, defamatory, or slanderous remarks about a person or company made in your posts."
I doubt that would have been published without undergoing some sort of legal verification.

Also, AIUI, WP operates in the USA under the following legislative control: "If you choose to visit WrongPlanet.net, your visit and any dispute over privacy is subject to these Terms, including limitations on damages, arbitration of disputes, and application of the law of the locations of California, Virginia, Maryland, Washington, Minnesota, the District of Columbia, and any other states, countries, or localities in which, or through which, data from your machine travels or originates."


Anyway, we're drifting off-topic, so...


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cyberdad
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05 Jul 2021, 7:26 am

Nades wrote:
I never said anything about blacks only payment. It's just that ethnic minorities have a tendency to live in wealthier cities more and white working class live is poorer smaller towns. The former just have better prospects and often given more in one way shape of form from local authorities.

Its like telling a trailer park full of white people that they're better off than black people who live in cities to use an easier analogy for Americans to understand. It just isn't true overall.


That's a demographic issue (e.g. urban Vs regional).



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05 Jul 2021, 7:27 am

Cornflake wrote:
^ I don't think that's globally true, a universal given - for example, WP's Terms of Use state: "As a registered member, you are held solely and personally responsible for any libelous, defamatory, or slanderous remarks about a person or company made in your posts."
I doubt that would have been published without undergoing some sort of legal verification.

Also, AIUI, WP operates in the USA under the following legislative control: "If you choose to visit WrongPlanet.net, your visit and any dispute over privacy is subject to these Terms, including limitations on damages, arbitration of disputes, and application of the law of the locations of California, Virginia, Maryland, Washington, Minnesota, the District of Columbia, and any other states, countries, or localities in which, or through which, data from your machine travels or originates."


Anyway, we're drifting off-topic, so...


I thought it came under Section 230 but I heard there might be challenges to it if websites choose what users can post and try to "guide" the topics of convo into bias positions.

An extreme hypothetical example is a Nazi forum that allows users to post but filters the sources that can be posted. Only sources that are pro Nazi can be cited and any sources that are against the Nazi status quo are blocked. In effect the owner is creating an echo chamber that mirrors his/her own ideology, choosing what can be published and allowing the site to spiral out of control.

It'll be interesting if such a challenge to Section 230 is made but I feel one will be made in the coming couple of years. It's already law in Europe that to have protection from personal liability, the website owners must be impartial.

Not that blocking sources was obviously ever going to happen (hopefully that is). But in regards to European law, Pepe was correct.



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05 Jul 2021, 7:28 am

cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
I never said anything about blacks only payment. It's just that ethnic minorities have a tendency to live in wealthier cities more and white working class live is poorer smaller towns. The former just have better prospects and often given more in one way shape of form from local authorities.

Its like telling a trailer park full of white people that they're better off than black people who live in cities to use an easier analogy for Americans to understand. It just isn't true overall.


That's a demographic issue (e.g. urban Vs regional).


So there are factors other than race that explain socioeconomic disparities? Strange. I've been told it's only skin colour.

(Not a dig at you, I've been told personally by friends)



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05 Jul 2021, 7:31 am

magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
magz wrote:
I think we should keep in mind that even within "the West", different countries have different histories and different sets of social issues stemming from it.


Yup. BLM to many here is the equivalent of going into a trailer park full of poor white families in the US and calling them privileged racists.

It's just a massive no no and very abrasive but people actually do that here.

Here, people seem much more "color blind" than they appear in the US, so the killings that trigger BLM protests are like, what, something like this happening in a country that calls itself civilized? 8O

Opinions on BLM itself are divisive, my own opinion is that the protests are exceptionally badly handled - US police really needs to learn de-escalation techniques. Not everything can be solved by more bullying.


People in my locality are indifferent to BLM. Who can blame them. They can go months without seeing a black person so racial discrimination isn't really something they can do even if they tried.



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05 Jul 2021, 7:33 am

it makes sense to me at least, that working class whites, and working class POC should be brothers and sisters in arms, but the PTB have arranged to make each party intensely distrust the other parties. divide and conquer. downright satanic if you ask me.



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05 Jul 2021, 7:45 am

Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
I never said anything about blacks only payment. It's just that ethnic minorities have a tendency to live in wealthier cities more and white working class live is poorer smaller towns. The former just have better prospects and often given more in one way shape of form from local authorities.

Its like telling a trailer park full of white people that they're better off than black people who live in cities to use an easier analogy for Americans to understand. It just isn't true overall.


That's a demographic issue (e.g. urban Vs regional).


So there are factors other than race that explain socioeconomic disparities? Strange. I've been told it's only skin colour.

(Not a dig at you, I've been told personally by friends)


There are lots of factors that determine socioeconomic disparities. You live in the UK, class (not race) is the biggest divide.



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05 Jul 2021, 7:47 am

cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
I never said anything about blacks only payment. It's just that ethnic minorities have a tendency to live in wealthier cities more and white working class live is poorer smaller towns. The former just have better prospects and often given more in one way shape of form from local authorities.

Its like telling a trailer park full of white people that they're better off than black people who live in cities to use an easier analogy for Americans to understand. It just isn't true overall.


That's a demographic issue (e.g. urban Vs regional).


So there are factors other than race that explain socioeconomic disparities? Strange. I've been told it's only skin colour.

(Not a dig at you, I've been told personally by friends)


There are lots of factors that determine socioeconomic disparities. You live in the UK, class (not race) is the biggest divide.


The UK "branch" of BLM doesn't seem to think so though.



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05 Jul 2021, 7:53 am

Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Nades wrote:
I never said anything about blacks only payment. It's just that ethnic minorities have a tendency to live in wealthier cities more and white working class live is poorer smaller towns. The former just have better prospects and often given more in one way shape of form from local authorities.

Its like telling a trailer park full of white people that they're better off than black people who live in cities to use an easier analogy for Americans to understand. It just isn't true overall.


That's a demographic issue (e.g. urban Vs regional).


So there are factors other than race that explain socioeconomic disparities? Strange. I've been told it's only skin colour.

(Not a dig at you, I've been told personally by friends)


There are lots of factors that determine socioeconomic disparities. You live in the UK, class (not race) is the biggest divide.


The UK "branch" of BLM doesn't seem to think so though.


They conflate race with class which risks alienating potential allies.



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05 Jul 2021, 7:54 am

Nades wrote:
Its like telling a trailer park full of white people that they're better off than black people who live in cities to use an easier analogy for Americans to understand. It just isn't true overall.

Nope, those people actually ARE better off but our politicians encourage them to feel sorry for themselves because they need those people angry and well-armed in preparation for the next couple of years.

I find it absolutely astounding that very few Americans participate in this thread despite it having been ostensibly about the US at its inception. Thus the false equivalence inherent the comment I quoted above. If one's understanding of the US is based on what one gets from Sky News then one really doesn't know very much about us.


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05 Jul 2021, 7:56 am

auntblabby wrote:
it makes sense to me at least, that working class whites, and working class POC should be brothers and sisters in arms, but the PTB have arranged to make each party intensely distrust the other parties. divide and conquer. downright satanic if you ask me.


I touched on it earlier. It sounds good in theory but POC working class are usually in wealthier cities and white working class in poorer, smaller towns.

White working class people like us just find POC metropolitan working class folk annoying as hell when we see the complain for the 30th time about oppression from their 300k flats (often given to them) and thousands of jobs within a 25 minute walk from them.