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DW_a_mom
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07 Sep 2021, 2:57 am

Axeman wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Axeman wrote:
I thought these were adaptable unselfish empathic people. So these empathic normals are psychologically unable to handle a different kid? They would rather kill one in most cases then have one mess up their lives.


Human beings are complex creatures. It's possible to be a good person but be brainwashed by religious fervour to believe you have the right to judge others and tell other people what to do with their bodies and the fetus growing inside them.


That fetus is a human being too. It shouldn't be murdered because it's an inconvenience to it's parents. If that's the case why screw in the first place other then lack of self control.


I read this and see someone who has no clue why people actually end up having abortions. It is usually so much more complicated than your statement suggests. As I've pointed out on this thread, access to affordable healthcare and good information are the keys to ending abortion. This whole idea of "exercising self control" is just so completely unhelpful. I have talked with many women and learned their stories; their stories will break your heart. You have no idea. You simply have no idea.

Understand I am not and never have been a "my body my choice" type. I think elective abortion is morally wrong. But I didn't have to live a whole lot of life before I learned how incredibly complicated the situations can be. To end abortion, we have to understand and address the underlying causes and drop the inaccurately self-righteous judgement that usually comes into these conversations.

I apologize for my tone, but I find the common dialogue points to be incredibly frustrating. I can’t stand how they discount the real life experiences of women. You didn’t invent those lines; they are quite popular, but they have been seeded into our society from a misogynist viewpoint, an agenda that has no respect for women. I guess that is what makes me so angry, even though I am not one of the women any of this personally applies to. But as a mother, sister, and friend, I know what I don’t want anyone to face.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 07 Sep 2021, 5:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

cyberdad
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07 Sep 2021, 3:34 am

Axeman wrote:
This started as a discussion of Satanists supporting abortion rights. Why would LaVey type Satanists do this? Because they believe in hedonism and putting yourself above everything. Those are core traits of a LaVey type Satanist belief. They count selfishness as a high virtue and they really have no spiritual beliefs as to them Satan is just a mascot personification of these beliefs.


It's probably good not to conflate satanists and their peculiar beliefs/practices with (for example) a rape victim who wants to abort the fetus of her rapist.



Axeman
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07 Sep 2021, 11:02 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Axeman wrote:
I thought these were adaptable unselfish empathic people. So these empathic normals are psychologically unable to handle a different kid? They would rather kill one in most cases then have one mess up their lives.


Human beings are complex creatures. It's possible to be a good person but be brainwashed by religious fervour to believe you have the right to judge others and tell other people what to do with their bodies and the fetus growing inside them.


That fetus is a human being too. It shouldn't be murdered because it's an inconvenience to it's parents. If that's the case why screw in the first place other then lack of self control.


I read this and see someone who has no clue why people actually end up having abortions. It is usually so much more complicated than your statement suggests. As I've pointed out on this thread, access to affordable healthcare and good information are the keys to ending abortion. This whole idea of "exercising self control" is just so completely unhelpful. I have talked with many women and learned their stories; their stories will break your heart. You have no idea. You simply have no idea.

Understand I am not and never have been a "my body my choice" type. I think elective abortion is morally wrong. But I didn't have to live a whole lot of life before I learned how incredibly complicated the situations can be. To end abortion, we have to understand and address the underlying causes and drop the inaccurately self-righteous judgement that usually comes into these conversations.

I apologize for my tone, but I find the common dialogue points to be incredibly frustrating. I can’t stand how they discount the real life experiences of women. You didn’t invent those lines; they are quite popular, but they have been seeded into our society from a misogynist viewpoint, an agenda that has no respect for women. I guess that is what makes me so angry, even though I am not one of the women any of this personally applies to. But as a mother, sister, and friend, I know what I don’t want anyone to face.


Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!



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07 Sep 2021, 11:06 am

Axeman wrote:
Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!
That's abusive of him.


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07 Sep 2021, 11:15 am

magz wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!
That's abusive of him.


Agreed.

Aside: I suppose experiences and influences like that are possible contributing factors as to why someone would be vehemently opposed to treating autism.


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07 Sep 2021, 11:18 am

goldfish21 wrote:
magz wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!
That's abusive of him.


Agreed.

Aside: I suppose experiences and influences like that are possible contributing factors as to why someone would be vehemently opposed to treating autism.


Hey just a properly developed empathic normal overflowing with the tolerance that caused the Holocaust.



goldfish21
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07 Sep 2021, 11:27 am

Axeman wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
magz wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!
That's abusive of him.


Agreed.

Aside: I suppose experiences and influences like that are possible contributing factors as to why someone would be vehemently opposed to treating autism.


Hey just a properly developed empathic normal overflowing with the tolerance that caused the Holocaust.


Wut? :? I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to convey with these words.


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Axeman
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07 Sep 2021, 11:37 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Axeman wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
magz wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!
That's abusive of him.


Agreed.

Aside: I suppose experiences and influences like that are possible contributing factors as to why someone would be vehemently opposed to treating autism.


Hey just a properly developed empathic normal overflowing with the tolerance that caused the Holocaust.


Wut? :? I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to convey with these words.


Her father.



goldfish21
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07 Sep 2021, 11:42 am

Axeman wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Axeman wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
magz wrote:
Axeman wrote:
Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!
That's abusive of him.


Agreed.

Aside: I suppose experiences and influences like that are possible contributing factors as to why someone would be vehemently opposed to treating autism.


Hey just a properly developed empathic normal overflowing with the tolerance that caused the Holocaust.


Wut? :? I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to convey with these words.


Her father.


I see. Yeah; he was/is a jerk.


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Mr Reynholm
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07 Sep 2021, 12:51 pm

So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.



goldfish21
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07 Sep 2021, 12:59 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.


Why are you politicizing religious affiliations?


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07 Sep 2021, 1:05 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.


What would make America finished is if we get the religious theocracy the evangelical conservatives want.


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King0fSpades
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07 Sep 2021, 1:43 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.



You know what's funny? Satanists were not the ones burning heretics at the stake or colonizing other countries so they could suck the resources dry and oppress the native populations.

Just saying.


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goldfish21
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07 Sep 2021, 2:32 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.



You know what's funny? Satanists were not the ones burning heretics at the stake or colonizing other countries so they could suck the resources dry and oppress the native populations.

Just saying.


Those sound like extremely anti-Christian actions, considering Christ never instructed his followers to commit atrocities.


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Axeman
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07 Sep 2021, 2:43 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.


I'm for freedom of religion and Satanism qualifies.



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07 Sep 2021, 2:52 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.



You know what's funny? Satanists were not the ones burning heretics at the stake or colonizing other countries so they could suck the resources dry and oppress the native populations.

Just saying.


Those sound like extremely anti-Christian actions, considering Christ never instructed his followers to commit atrocities.


See I don't believe that considering that Christians have been doing this for thousands of years ever since the Roman Empire collapsed and Emperor Charlemagne decided that everyone in Europe was going to become a Christian under threat of torture and death.


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