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after dad publically shames her, girl jumps off overpass

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DailyPoutine1
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29 Sep 2015, 8:04 pm

I think she was overreacting.


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Fnord
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29 Sep 2015, 8:07 pm

DailyPoutine1 wrote:
I think she was overreacting.
I think they both over-reacted.

I hope that the dad feels the full weight of guilt and shame upon whatever resides in the place of his soul.



kazanscube
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30 Sep 2015, 2:56 pm

What in the hell is with this so-called culture of shame. Yes, I know in different parts of the world societies tend to have this notion of carrying out different actions towards family members when one feels that the family name or honor has been marred or ruined in some way. But, this should not be the case where it results in someone taking their own life.. I'm glad I don't live in 1300 AD Japan I'd probably feel the need to escape from the idea of being dishonored..


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auntblabby
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30 Sep 2015, 8:55 pm

some people persist in being backworldsmen.



Barchan
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03 Oct 2015, 1:15 pm

We need new legislation for victims of suicide. If somebody commits suicide as a result of obvious psychological abuse, the abuser should be charged with murder, or at least manslaughter.



Fnord
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03 Oct 2015, 1:20 pm

Barchan wrote:
We need new legislation for victims of suicide. If somebody commits suicide as a result of obvious psychological abuse, the abuser should be charged with murder, or at least voluntary manslaughter.
The trouble would be in getting evidence of the alleged abuse.

What of those suicide notes that blame "everybody" for persecution - who gets blamed then?

Who gets prosecuted when a person murders someone else and then commits suicide, and leaves no suicide note at all?



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03 Oct 2015, 1:28 pm

I agree, I don't agree with shaming punishment. It's abusive.



Fnord
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03 Oct 2015, 4:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
Barchan wrote:
We need new legislation for victims of suicide. If somebody commits suicide as a result of obvious psychological abuse, the abuser should be charged with murder, or at least voluntary manslaughter.
The trouble would be in getting evidence of the alleged abuse.

What of those suicide notes that blame "everybody" for persecution - who gets blamed then?

Who gets prosecuted when a person murders someone else and then commits suicide, and leaves no suicide note at all?
Another thought ...

A woman from my hometown committed suicide. Her note rambled on about her love for a certain male celebrity, how he never answered her fan letters, and how she felt completely devastated when that celebrity married another celebrity. She blamed his "betrayal" of her love for him for driving her to suicide.

Should the celebrity go to jail for allegedly "abusing" the love of this obsessively delusional female fan? After all, he ignored her, gave her the "silent treatment", and married someone else despite the fact that the woman who committed suicide had repeatedly professed her eternal love for him.

A person should not be prosecuted for murder if there is no evidence to prove they they have actually killed someone through an accident, heat-of-passion, or pre-meditation. People can be prosecuted for conspiring with others to commit murder, but physical or emotional abuse should be prosecuted as such, and not as a prelude to self-inflicted murder.



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03 Oct 2015, 7:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Barchan wrote:
We need new legislation for victims of suicide. If somebody commits suicide as a result of obvious psychological abuse, the abuser should be charged with murder, or at least voluntary manslaughter.
The trouble would be in getting evidence of the alleged abuse.

What of those suicide notes that blame "everybody" for persecution - who gets blamed then?

Who gets prosecuted when a person murders someone else and then commits suicide, and leaves no suicide note at all?
Another thought ...

A woman from my hometown committed suicide. Her note rambled on about her love for a certain male celebrity, how he never answered her fan letters, and how she felt completely devastated when that celebrity married another celebrity. She blamed his "betrayal" of her love for him for driving her to suicide.

Should the celebrity go to jail for allegedly "abusing" the love of this obsessively delusional female fan? After all, he ignored her, gave her the "silent treatment", and married someone else despite the fact that the woman who committed suicide had repeatedly professed her eternal love for him.

A person should not be prosecuted for murder if there is no evidence to prove they they have actually killed someone through an accident, heat-of-passion, or pre-meditation. People can be prosecuted for conspiring with others to commit murder, but physical or emotional abuse should be prosecuted as such, and not as a prelude to self-inflicted murder.


In that particular case, obviously the woman was mentally ill, and the actor clearly didn't know her. I think a prosecution would be much more likely if something like cyberbullying or harassment was provable.


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Fnord
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03 Oct 2015, 8:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
... I think a prosecution would be much more likely if something like cyberbullying or harassment was provable.
"Provable beyond a reasonable doubt" has already been established as a mitigating factor for conviction in murder cases.

As it stands, a person has to be proven to have been present at the time and place of a murder (the opportunity), proven to have used the murder weapon (the means) to kill the victim, and proven to have his or her own reason (the motivation) for committing the murder to even stand a chance of being convicted of murder. A person who conspires to commit the murder need not be present. A person who sets a lethal trap need not be present, either. Thus, opportunity-by-proxy could be used to convict someone of murder.

At best, an absentee person who had abused or provoked someone into suicide might be charged with manslaughter (3rd-degree murder) in a criminal court, but may not end up being convicted.

This does not mean that the abuser will not be brought to trial in civil court, but that usually won't result in incarceration or capital punishment - usually just a monetary fine and a public apology.

Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been a lawyer or a law student. I have, however, served on several juries, and am somewhat familiar with things like "culpability", "reasonable doubt", and "admissible evidence".



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03 Oct 2015, 8:39 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
xenocity wrote:
I fail to see how the father is abusive.

The father was probably too hard on her, which parents do from time to time.
She probably had other life issues and this was the final straw.

I've known people to punishment their children harder than that, including my own mother and my dad's family.


People need to keep all their personal stuff off the internet, rule number one.


I agree with you for once!

The punishment was for something she did wrong -- I wonder what she did that drew the punishment.



eric76
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03 Oct 2015, 8:42 pm

Something else to think about -- is there any evidence that her suicide was a result of her punishment?



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03 Oct 2015, 8:52 pm

eric76 wrote:
Something else to think about -- is there any evidence that her suicide was a result of her punishment?
Correlation only -- no causality (i.e., no "Smoking Gun", per se).

According to the article cited in this thread's first post ...
Quote:
"Izabel Laxamana, a 13-year-old girl in Tacoma, Washington died by suicide after jumping off a highway overpass on Friday, May 29. Days before, Laxamana’s father Jeff had reportedly punished her for an unspecified transgression by cutting off her hair and uploading a video to YouTube. There’s now a controversy brewing online and among the girl's friends and family over whether the video caused her death."

The video did not cause her death, in my opinion. It was the impact at the end of her leap that did her in -- the leap that she chose to make.

According to This Snopes' Article ...

Quote:
The girl’s decision to kill herself also doesn’t appear to be related to the hair cutting, said Tacoma Public Information Officer Loretta Cool.

“She was a 13-year-old that made some poor choices, meaning that she didn’t have to kill herself,” Cool said while also calling the family’s choice of discipline poor.

According to their findings so far, the video was leaked by a third party who thought they were being of help, Cool said.

“It was, ‘I’m going to record this, it’s yours, that way you’ll think twice before you do this again,’” Cool said of the father’s alleged reasoning to his daughter for filming her punishment.

“It was part of the discipline process,” she said. “So she would remember and not do it again.”

Cool said there were no known past issues with the family or teen by the police department or child protective services.

Online claims that the girl was bullied at school, some by total strangers, are also unfounded, she said.

“At least one of the people who claimed to have inside knowledge didn’t even know the girl,” Cool argued. “It’s been a very frustrating investigation.”

That investigation is still underway, though Laxamana’s father isn’t expected to face charges.


Since the police aren't charging the father with any crime, why are so many people "making a federal case" out of it? She chose to jump off that bridge, and it was her own action that ended her life. Plain and simple.



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03 Oct 2015, 9:47 pm

If I were in her shoes, alternatively I would have straight up got a sharp kitchen knife and stabbed them in their sleep, and run away to a better life.



eric76
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03 Oct 2015, 9:53 pm

Scorpius14 wrote:
If I were in her shoes, alternatively I would have straight up got a sharp kitchen knife and stabbed them in their sleep, and run away to a better life.


Many years in prison is "a better life"?



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03 Oct 2015, 10:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
Since the police aren't charging the father with any crime, why are so many people "making a federal case" out of it? She chose to jump off that bridge, and it was her own action that ended her life. Plain and simple.

It's a big deal because she was a 13 year old child who did not need to die but she did.

And, also, parents in the U.S. are allowed to basically parent how they want short of physical harm or sexual abuse because their children are theirs, but the other side of that power and control is that it is the father's responsibility what the outcome is. He was legally allowed the power to cut her hair off to humiliate her....why I don't know, but he had that authority.....she was his. And he was responsible for recognizing and seeing her needs were met.

I think I read you are a father, were you not angered by the mocking tone he used and by his symbolically mutilating her to deepen her pain over whatever she had done?