Board index › General Discussion › News and Current Events

Restrained Autistic Student dies on bus

Page 7 of 10 [ 151 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

23 Dec 2016, 6:23 pm

EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:

Obviously it's tragic when someone dies in this fashion, but violence begets violence.


You must be trolling.

I would have thought this was obvious. (Not the trolling part. Lol)



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

23 Dec 2016, 7:19 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel that a person died needlessly.

The person might have been violent, might have been having a meltdown---but it's not like the person deserved to die. He didn't commit some heinous crime.

What should have happened is the use of proper restraints, and training in how to use these "proper restraints."

I feel people should explore more ways to effectively restrain somebody which doesn't cut off breathing.

This sort of thing is happening too often. It's because breathing is obstructed.


This is a school for developmentally disabled like I have always gone to. The trained staff performed standard deescalation techniques like I have seen done many times. It has been determined that they followed safety protocols, which means no one put the student in any sort of choke hold.

Based on the descriptions I read, it sounds like the student had severe autism. And he became agitated. Another student tried to help and got injured. When a severely autistic person is in a state of agitation and not really in control of their limbs, it's easy for someone who makes physical contact with them to accidentally become injured. Usually the person having the meltdown is hitting themselves or hitting their head against something. There's a lot of flailing around. It's easy to get caught in the "crossfire" if you in too close of a proximity whilst this is occurring. This is why staff members who deal with developmentally disabled severely autistic people have to be properly trained in deescalation techniques. This sort of incident is not a matter of someone with severe autism attacking someone.

Unless someone is a developmentally disabled significant special needs autistic, it's unlikely that the types of meltdowns they experience are on the same level and they really can't fairly compare their experiences with someone who has a severe or significant autism disability.



Last edited by EzraS on 23 Dec 2016, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

23 Dec 2016, 7:30 pm

I'll have to see the video later, when I get home.

I get what you're saying, Ezra.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

23 Dec 2016, 7:34 pm

EzraS wrote:
This is why staff members who deal with developmentally disabled severely autistic people have to be properly trained in deescalation techniques. This sort of incident is not a matter of someone with severe autism attacking someone.


School Transportation News: Autistic Student Dies On School Bus Ride, Cause Unknown, December 19, 2016

Quote:
“While two special education aides and the bus driver, who are trained in de-escalation techniques, attempted to calm him, (Corona) lost consciousness,” said Betti Colucci, president of Bright Futures Academy, in a statement.

She noted that two of the staff members performed CPR on Corona as the other called 911. Police reported that Corona was prone to outbursts. He was transported to an area hospital where he was pronounced dead.

“A preliminary review of the circumstances indicates that school officials followed all safety protocols, and a thorough investigation is underway,” Colucci added in the statement.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

23 Dec 2016, 8:03 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'll have to see the video later, when I get home.

I get what you're saying, Ezra.


Well I was just making a general statement, rather than really addressing you directly if it seemed like I was giving you a lecture haha. I know how knowledgeable you are.

I think high some functioning autistics tend to compare their emotional outbursts with outbursts a severely autistic person experiences from sudden sensory overload.

It's like when someone tries to compare when they're "feeling blue" to severe clinical depression. They'll gloss over it and say all that person needs is something to cheer them up like a piece of candy and all that SSRI stuff is nonsense.

These sort of statements are always major facepalm material.



ZenDen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,730
Location: On top of the world

24 Dec 2016, 11:21 am

EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:

Obviously it's tragic when someone dies in this fashion, but violence begets violence.


You must be trolling.


Maybe not Ezra.

I think this is androbot01's true and very best attempt at showing compassion for others...it's just there doesn't seem to be much there (which may make his/her best efforts seem like trolling.

People that didn't receive any, or very little, compassion when growing up have a different definition of compassion than most (just ask me).

If a person never realizes this about themselves, they can't understand (and therefor they disbelieve) what we're saying.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

24 Dec 2016, 11:41 am

ZenDen wrote:
I think this is androbot01's true and very best attempt at showing compassion for others...it's just there doesn't seem to be much there (which may make his/her best efforts seem like trolling.

Of for heaven's sake. (Her best efforts, I'm a 46-year old woman.) What about compassion for the people who were trying to restrain him when he died. I can't imagine that they were not upset by his death. But for the people who work with these kids every day, you guys have no compassion. You presume evil intent and blame.



ZenDen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,730
Location: On top of the world

24 Dec 2016, 12:20 pm

androbot01 wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
I think this is androbot01's true and very best attempt at showing compassion for others...it's just there doesn't seem to be much there (which may make his/her best efforts seem like trolling.

Of for heaven's sake. (Her best efforts, I'm a 46-year old woman.) What about compassion for the people who were trying to restrain him when he died. I can't imagine that they were not upset by his death. But for the people who work with these kids every day, you guys have no compassion. You presume evil intent and blame.


Kind of what I was talking about. Comparing this loss: a young man who died, and the trauma he went through to any temporary discomfort (your word:"upset") of the others on the bus. No sense of understanding or scale I can discern.

But trying; I sense trying to understand the difference between "upset" and dead. Upset??? You'll have to do better to convince me you didn't have a rugged early life.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,317
Location: Pacific Northwest

24 Dec 2016, 12:40 pm

The article lacked too much detail for me to form an opinion. I feel sorry for the parents though who have lost their child. How do you die from being restrained? I wonder why he had to be retrained in the first place? Was he being aggressive so they had to restrain him to keep him from hurting others on the bus or did he not want to leave school so they had to drag him out there(not literally) and put him on the bus and hold him in the seat? Or did he not want to go to school so they had to drag him outside from his home to the bus and hold him in his seat? Could he have been self harming so they had to restrain him?


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.


androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

24 Dec 2016, 12:44 pm

ZenDen wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
I think this is androbot01's true and very best attempt at showing compassion for others...it's just there doesn't seem to be much there (which may make his/her best efforts seem like trolling.

Of for heaven's sake. (Her best efforts, I'm a 46-year old woman.) What about compassion for the people who were trying to restrain him when he died. I can't imagine that they were not upset by his death. But for the people who work with these kids every day, you guys have no compassion. You presume evil intent and blame.


Kind of what I was talking about. Comparing this loss: a young man who died, and the trauma he went through to any temporary discomfort (your word:"upset") of the others on the bus. No sense of understanding or scale I can discern.

But trying; I sense trying to understand the difference between "upset" and dead. Upset??? You'll have to do better to convince me you didn't have a rugged early life.


These things do not exist exclusively of each other; that is, it is possible to have compassion for both at the same time.

And, what do you mean by "do better," I wasn't aware I did anything to challenge your opinion of me?



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,317
Location: Pacific Northwest

24 Dec 2016, 12:48 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Quote:
Investigators believe Corona got into with another student and school workers who had to restrain him with the help of the bus driver.

At one point, police say the teen passed out.

Police said the school employees gave Corona CPR and called for medical help. Neighbors, near the corner of H and Victoria Streets in San Benardino, say they saw the bus pull over at around 5:45 p.m


CBS

It seems pretty clear to me. Corona was fighting and wouldn't stop. He was physically restrained because he was physically fighting with someone. It's a shame that he died. But I think the responsibility rests with Corona.

Autism is not a pass for physical violence.



Okay, that sounds like a freak accident then. I hate abuse so I feel for everyone who had to deal with it. Still sad for the parents though. I am sure the school staff are sad too. But I still wonder how one dies from being restrained and how he died. My opinion could still change if being given more detail.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.


androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

24 Dec 2016, 12:51 pm

League_Girl wrote:
My opinion could still change if being given more detail.

Mine could too, but the most recent article I can find indicates that they have found no fault with the support workers. It doesn't give detail citing the privacy of the family, which is understandable.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,317
Location: Pacific Northwest

24 Dec 2016, 12:57 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
So you're totally going to give him a pass for his own behaviour? I hope you realize that does nothing to empower autistic people.


Give him a pass for what, exactly? All the story says is that "Corona, who attended Bright Futures Academy, a Riverside school serving special-needs students, got into an altercation with another student and school employees on the bus, police said."

Altercation is a vaguely defined word but it suggests he was having an argument and was angry. It doesn't say that he assaulted people. It doesn't say that he did anything punishable by death.

Merriam Webster notes "altercation implies fighting with words as the chief weapon, although it may also connote blows <a loud public altercation>."

I hope you realize that you seem to be suggesting that merely being in an argument while autistic deserves the death penalty?

At least, it means that as much as what ASPartOfMe has posted is somehow disempowering autistic people by saying they shouldn't be killed for getting in arguments on the schoolbus.


Are you seriously arguing that no fight took place to initiate the restraint hold?

Quote:
CBS2’s Jeff Nguyen reported the teen — who had autism — died following a fight on the bus early Friday evening on his way home from school.

Investigators believe Corona got into with another student and school workers who had to restrain him with the help of the bus driver.

CBS

So shall we check the dictionary to see what "fight" means?



A fight can also be verbal.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.


ZenDen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,730
Location: On top of the world

24 Dec 2016, 1:01 pm

League_Girl wrote:
The article lacked too much detail for me to form an opinion. I feel sorry for the parents though who have lost their child. How do you die from being restrained? I wonder why he had to be retrained in the first place? Was he being aggressive so they had to restrain him to keep him from hurting others on the bus or did he not want to leave school so they had to drag him out there(not literally) and put him on the bus and hold him in the seat? Or did he not want to go to school so they had to drag him outside from his home to the bus and hold him in his seat? Could he have been self harming so they had to restrain him?


Restrain often means: An arm around a throat.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,317
Location: Pacific Northwest

24 Dec 2016, 1:14 pm

EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
...It's really not credible to deal with real life events from inside the confines of your own little world.

Sure, marginalization. Much easier than to accept fault. I am not the only one in a little world.

I am forced to say bluntly that if one cannot control one's physical attacks on others, then the consequences will be physical. This issue to me is an example of the disabled expecting too much from society, or to put it another way, Special Snowflake Syndrome. No one is so special that it's okay that they unpredictably attack other people. I believe that there are steps to take to avoid physical meltdowns, including medication. Not to use a tool that helps with such a condition is selfish. However, if these physical meltdowns cannot be controlled then one shouldn't be surprised when something like this unfortunate death occurs. Obviously the preceding comments are my own view and will surely be seen as heartless, but I think it is more heartless to ignore reality.


Does this philosophy apply to grand mal seizures as well?



Huh, I have had a grand mal seizure and I never attacked anyone. I was only on the floor with my lips blue and my eyes rolled back and it took 10 to 15 minutes for anyone to notice.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.


ZenDen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,730
Location: On top of the world

24 Dec 2016, 1:47 pm

androbot01 wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
I think this is androbot01's true and very best attempt at showing compassion for others...it's just there doesn't seem to be much there (which may make his/her best efforts seem like trolling.

Of for heaven's sake. (Her best efforts, I'm a 46-year old woman.) What about compassion for the people who were trying to restrain him when he died. I can't imagine that they were not upset by his death. But for the people who work with these kids every day, you guys have no compassion. You presume evil intent and blame.


Kind of what I was talking about. Comparing this loss: a young man who died, and the trauma he went through to any temporary discomfort (your word:"upset") of the others on the bus. No sense of understanding or scale I can discern.

But trying; I sense trying to understand the difference between "upset" and dead. Upset??? You'll have to do better to convince me you didn't have a rugged early life.


These things do not exist exclusively of each other; that is, it is possible to have compassion for both at the same time.

And, what do you mean by "do better," I wasn't aware I did anything to challenge your opinion of me?


And, what do you mean by "do better," I wasn't aware I did anything to challenge your opinion of me?

Earlier I had made a comment about children who, not experiencing compassion when young growing up, may grow into adult people who think little of compassion, but you didn't comment. (Just guessing you may fall in this group. Can be totally wrong.) Thus my statement.

And, as I'm unable to form an overall opinion of you, I only offer comment about your statements of opinion in this thread.