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kokopelli
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14 Dec 2017, 1:00 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:

Very funny. And completely absurd.

Is there a British Race? A French Race? A German Race? A Canadian Race? An Australian Race? An American Race? An Italian Race? An Egyptian Race? An Israeli Race? ...

Aramaic is actually ancestral to both Jewish Hebrew and Arabic...Jesus (for example) spoke Aramaic not Hebrew


If I learn to speak Japanese, will I have joined the Japanese race?



cyberdad
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14 Dec 2017, 3:31 pm

kokopelli wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:

Very funny. And completely absurd.

Is there a British Race? A French Race? A German Race? A Canadian Race? An Australian Race? An American Race? An Italian Race? An Egyptian Race? An Israeli Race? ...

Aramaic is actually ancestral to both Jewish Hebrew and Arabic...Jesus (for example) spoke Aramaic not Hebrew


If I learn to speak Japanese, will I have joined the Japanese race?

Race is a concept invented by European colonists to justify slavery and underpinned by eugenicists who used Darwinian evolutionary theory and the philosophers like Arnold Toynbee to justify scientific racism and manifest destiny (a rational justification for European global supremacy) which of course spawned Nazism and modern beliefs in white supremacy (a belief I suspect still carried by most white Americans)

In pre-modern times all people belonged to tribes and membership of tribes was based on cultural and linguistic affinity not race. So to answer you question, if you spoke Japanese and adhered to Japanese culture then yes you could call yourself Japanese



Daniel89
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14 Dec 2017, 4:01 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:

Very funny. And completely absurd.

Is there a British Race? A French Race? A German Race? A Canadian Race? An Australian Race? An American Race? An Italian Race? An Egyptian Race? An Israeli Race? ...

Aramaic is actually ancestral to both Jewish Hebrew and Arabic...Jesus (for example) spoke Aramaic not Hebrew


If I learn to speak Japanese, will I have joined the Japanese race?

Race is a concept invented by European colonists to justify slavery and underpinned by eugenicists who used Darwinian evolutionary theory and the philosophers like Arnold Toynbee to justify scientific racism and manifest destiny (a rational justification for European global supremacy) which of course spawned Nazism and modern beliefs in white supremacy (a belief I suspect still carried by most white Americans)

In pre-modern times all people belonged to tribes and membership of tribes was based on cultural and linguistic affinity not race. So to answer you question, if you spoke Japanese and adhered to Japanese culture then yes you could call yourself Japanese


No race is not a concept developed by Europeans, all this blame wh***y for everything is pathetic. Indians have a caste system in which one of these castes are untouchable. Muhammad traded an two African slaves for one Arab Slave.



cyberdad
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14 Dec 2017, 7:50 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kokopelli wrote:

Very funny. And completely absurd.

Is there a British Race? A French Race? A German Race? A Canadian Race? An Australian Race? An American Race? An Italian Race? An Egyptian Race? An Israeli Race? ...

Aramaic is actually ancestral to both Jewish Hebrew and Arabic...Jesus (for example) spoke Aramaic not Hebrew


If I learn to speak Japanese, will I have joined the Japanese race?

Race is a concept invented by European colonists to justify slavery and underpinned by eugenicists who used Darwinian evolutionary theory and the philosophers like Arnold Toynbee to justify scientific racism and manifest destiny (a rational justification for European global supremacy) which of course spawned Nazism and modern beliefs in white supremacy (a belief I suspect still carried by most white Americans)

In pre-modern times all people belonged to tribes and membership of tribes was based on cultural and linguistic affinity not race. So to answer you question, if you spoke Japanese and adhered to Japanese culture then yes you could call yourself Japanese


No race is not a concept developed by Europeans, all this blame wh***y for everything is pathetic. Indians have a caste system in which one of these castes are untouchable. Muhammad traded an two African slaves for one Arab Slave.

wrong...
The Indian caste system is based on one's occupation - it was never based on any concept of race

Slavery was common in the ancient world and was never based on any concept of race. The Arabs captured more than 1.25 million Europeans as slaves from North Africa and this doesn't include untold millions of slavs (from where the word slave originates) enslaved by the Turks and Arabs. They had no concept of (ethno) racial hierarchy as any child born to a slave (blonde European or African) was considered Arab



Daniel89
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15 Dec 2017, 3:13 am

No the caste system was based on race and your race determined what jobs your were allowed to do. People have been aware of the concept of race since they met other member races and seen that they look different.



kokopelli
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15 Dec 2017, 8:27 am

Daniel89 wrote:
No the caste system was based on race and your race determined what jobs your were allowed to do. People have been aware of the concept of race since they met other member races and seen that they look different.


In India? Are each caste a different race?

Cites, please.



kokopelli
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15 Dec 2017, 8:29 am

I just did a Google search on the castes in India. According to that, there are 3,000 different castes and 25,000 different subcastes.

Are you really going to claim that there are 3,000 different races in India?



Daniel89
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15 Dec 2017, 9:15 am

It really depends what you class as a race, Irish Travellers are considered a race.



cyberdad
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15 Dec 2017, 6:47 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
No the caste system was based on race and your race determined what jobs your were allowed to do. People have been aware of the concept of race since they met other member races and seen that they look different.

It's a projection by the European colonists that appearance + caste = race
In India upper caste hindus come from generations of people who due to their social status spent more time indoors compared to lower castes who's occupations mean't they were exposed to the hot Indian sun. It's not rocket science that endogamy (caste marriage barriers) means over time their appearance changes through selection.

However these caste barriers are only 2000 yrs old, India is much older. The highest brahmin to the lowest pariah share most of their genes...they had concepts of tribes then caste/religion but not race...



cyberdad
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15 Dec 2017, 6:49 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
It really depends what you class as a race

You answered your own question...there is no scientific basis for race- designation is subjective
Only racist Europeans ask for this information on census forms or job applications



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15 Dec 2017, 10:33 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
No the caste system was based on race and your race determined what jobs your were allowed to do. People have been aware of the concept of race since they met other member races and seen that they look different.

It's a projection by the European colonists that appearance + caste = race
In India upper caste hindus come from generations of people who due to their social status spent more time indoors compared to lower castes who's occupations mean't they were exposed to the hot Indian sun. It's not rocket science that endogamy (caste marriage barriers) means over time their appearance changes through selection.

However these caste barriers are only 2000 yrs old, India is much older. The highest brahmin to the lowest pariah share most of their genes...they had concepts of tribes then caste/religion but not race...


While I have no doubt that Brahmans stayed out of the sun instead of toiling outside, it must be remembered that they and the various warrior castes are descendants of fair skinned, blue eyed Indo-Europeans. But it can be argued that these original practitioners of Hinduism were themselves white, and definitely were guilty of racism.


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cyberdad
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15 Dec 2017, 11:03 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
No the caste system was based on race and your race determined what jobs your were allowed to do. People have been aware of the concept of race since they met other member races and seen that they look different.

It's a projection by the European colonists that appearance + caste = race
In India upper caste hindus come from generations of people who due to their social status spent more time indoors compared to lower castes who's occupations mean't they were exposed to the hot Indian sun. It's not rocket science that endogamy (caste marriage barriers) means over time their appearance changes through selection.

However these caste barriers are only 2000 yrs old, India is much older. The highest brahmin to the lowest pariah share most of their genes...they had concepts of tribes then caste/religion but not race...


While I have no doubt that Brahmans stayed out of the sun instead of toiling outside, it must be remembered that they and the various warrior castes are descendants of fair skinned, blue eyed Indo-Europeans. But it can be argued that these original practitioners of Hinduism were themselves white, and definitely were guilty of racism.

This is an error of language Vs ethnicity
The only population in south Asia who have retained blonde hair and blues eyes are the Kalash of the Chitral valley in modern Pakistan. Interestingly their genetics indicates they are infact less closely related to western Europeans than their dark skinned Indian neighbors which initially doesn't make sense
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/ ... jSZzlWWbIV
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4570283/

Genetics indicates that the Kalash may have been living in India for more than 10,000 years which brings into question how hinduism arose as these people are "pure" Indian but obviously don't follow hinduism and don't follow the narrative of "Aryan invasion"



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15 Dec 2017, 11:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
No the caste system was based on race and your race determined what jobs your were allowed to do. People have been aware of the concept of race since they met other member races and seen that they look different.

It's a projection by the European colonists that appearance + caste = race
In India upper caste hindus come from generations of people who due to their social status spent more time indoors compared to lower castes who's occupations mean't they were exposed to the hot Indian sun. It's not rocket science that endogamy (caste marriage barriers) means over time their appearance changes through selection.

However these caste barriers are only 2000 yrs old, India is much older. The highest brahmin to the lowest pariah share most of their genes...they had concepts of tribes then caste/religion but not race...


While I have no doubt that Brahmans stayed out of the sun instead of toiling outside, it must be remembered that they and the various warrior castes are descendants of fair skinned, blue eyed Indo-Europeans. But it can be argued that these original practitioners of Hinduism were themselves white, and definitely were guilty of racism.

This is an error of language Vs ethnicity
The only population in south Asia who have retained blonde hair and blues eyes are the Kalash of the Chitral valley in modern Pakistan. Interestingly their genetics indicates they are infact less closely related to western Europeans than their dark skinned Indian neighbors which initially doesn't make sense
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/ ... jSZzlWWbIV
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4570283/

Genetics indicates that the Kalash may have been living in India for more than 10,000 years which brings into question how hinduism arose as these people are "pure" Indian but obviously don't follow hinduism and don't follow the narrative of "Aryan invasion"


OF course there's been intermixing, but the higher caste people recall how they were once lighter in color, and see how they are still lighter in color to the low caste people.


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16 Dec 2017, 2:29 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
OF course there's been intermixing, but the higher caste people recall how they were once lighter in color, and see how they are still lighter in color to the low caste people.


Yes of course but "colorism" doesnt equate to racism. Almost all civilisations had colorism - for example Japan and China fair skin is desirable and people do everything to keep out of the direct sun. This is not to do with race but with simple division of society into laborers/farmers and upper class. Once again dark skin is a sign of working in the sun



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16 Dec 2017, 3:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
It really depends what you class as a race

You answered your own question...there is no scientific basis for race- designation is subjective
Only racist Europeans ask for this information on census forms or job applications


If there is no such thing as race then there is not such thing as racism. There is a scientific basis for race, just recently scientists use the term Ethnicity exclusively.



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16 Dec 2017, 4:09 am

Daniel89 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
It really depends what you class as a race

You answered your own question...there is no scientific basis for race- designation is subjective
Only racist Europeans ask for this information on census forms or job applications


If there is no such thing as race then there is not such thing as racism. There is a scientific basis for race, just recently scientists use the term Ethnicity exclusively.


As different varieties of humanity can intermix and produce viable offspring, it proves there is only one race - - the human race.


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