Dylann Roof's lawyers appeal death sentence citing autism

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At this point he has already ruined himself, and he is thought of rather poorly by all decent people; I have no doubt that this thread will outlast him, though, at the rate everyone is going.

With the appeals process in a death penalty case,I wouldn't count on it,it's federal not Texas or Florida so he could live for 15 years.

Pure nonsense.


We all know that his lawyers don't necessarily believe in their own moral arguments. Its just a courtroom weapon. But that's not the point.

The question is what if the court buys the argument?

If the court buys it then it sets a precedent that will then effect the rest of society.

"Dr. James Ballenger, a local forensic psychiatrist, found that Roof showed signs of “Social Anxiety Disorder, a Mixed Substance Abuse Disorder, a Schizoid Personality Disorder, depression by history, and a possible Autistic Spectrum Disorder,” the court filing indicates.
https://www.postandcourier.com/church_s ... 2c5bb.html

Roof is described as "an obsessive, compulsive loner" with "limited facial expressions" and "disconnected emotionally from others".

Of coarse lawyers don't believe all there arguments and of coarse it's a courtroom weapon,I never said otherwise and Roof's attorney's are doing there job by trying to save his life.

Yes it is true a person with mental disease or defect can't be put to death.

Yes things that happen in court are part of a precedent(we use English common law) and can effect future court cases but the arguments in this case are so standard and usual for a death penalty appeal,precedent won't be an issue here,these arguments in the Roof case are death penalty cliche.

What exactly are you disagreeing with me about?

If Roof's current attorney's don't use every weapon they have,his case could then be appealed for inefectiveness of council.

Dude...I didn't say that you "said otherwise". I said that you said "it's NOT otherwise". I know that you didn't say "it isn't X". I said that you said that "it IS X". But that we all already KNOW that its X, but the fact that it is X is not the issue. Its Y (the precedent set by X) that would be the problem.



His defense team maybe making standard claims, but...what if the court were dumb enough to buy into their claims? That's what I am saying is the issue.

Rachel Loftin, a licensed clinical psychologist and nationally known expert in autism spectrum disorder's examination, suggesting Roof is autistic.
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnew ... 54.pdf.pdf

Page 51 is where she maps his behavior to an ASD.

Some of her observations:
adequate intelligence, overestimation of his abilities.
Social isolation and "living" on his computer.
No friendships or intimate relationships
Facial affect is incongruent with context of speech
He uses overly specific verbal communication.
He takes the racist material he reads on the internet as literal.
He avoids eye gaze.
Severe preoccupation with racist material
He has a strong need for order

Fundamentally, she seems to blame the autistic traits of SOCIAL ISOLATION + LITERALNESS + "Special interest" (Preoccupation).

She says: "Without input from competing views, Dylan went on online, and read and believed misinformation about African Americans and developed a strong preoccupation with racism".

Oh greeeeattttt!

That shrink's theory just makes me feel as happy as a pig in s**t!

Number one

Thanks to the internet (the MIS information superhighway) every poorly socialized young person on the planet is going to get indoctrinated into crazy extreme povs, and will join ISIS, or the Neo Nazis, or become lonewolf spree killers like Dylann.

Which unfortunately may have a lot of truth to it. If true its scary.

Number Two

His autism made him more suspectible to the Net corrupting him. According to that theory.

Great! All autistics are dangerous. And now even more so because we live in the Net Age.

As if we autistics aren't stigmatized enough all ready!
========================================

BTW...that's the real issue I have with this notion you're pushing- that autism should be considered a mitigating factor in murder.

There is no free lunch. We autistics will pay a price for that.

Do you REALLY want that set as precedent? Do you not see the cost to autistics of doing that? The cost being the increased stigma it would cause if autistics get stereotyped as homicidal?

I am not really sure where your disagreement is and what point your trying to make.

Many people have already had death sentences commuted based on mental disease or defect.High percentages of death sentences are never carried out, especially outside of Texas and Florida.This case will start no precedents anyway it turns out.

It's the lawyer's job to try to save there clients life with every tool they have otherwise you have an appeal on ineffective council.

I am at a loss as to where your disagreement with me is,I'm at a loss.

I am sure you are at a loss because you cant read. Lol! You thought I said that you said the opposite of what I said that you said. Lol!

Okay...if you killed somebody. And you happened to be left handed then you would want your lawyers to float the idea that you're being left handed is somehow a mitigating circumstance. Teachers mistreated you for using the wrong hand in grade school. So that somehow caused you to become a mass murderer twenty years later.

It MIGHT work. Might get you off. Desperate but doesn't hurt to try.

But what if you are one of the thirty million Americans who are left handed, but have never murdered anyone?

Do you really want the court to be dumb enough to fall for that as a defense?

It would set a precedent. And create a stigma that all left handed folks are homicidal. Wouldn't it?

You obviously can't read anything I write either and there is no reason to be rude.

In the unlikely event that defense attorney's used PTSD from being picked on for being left handed as a mitigating factor in a death penalty appeal,the lawyers would be doing there job, otherwise there would be grounds for appeal for ineffective council.

Yes this could create precedent and open legal doors for left handed convicts on death row if this defense were to work,I doubt this defense would work unless it was proven an individual was really tormented for being left handed but that is how the system works.If a judge makes a decision it's a decision that society has to live with because that is our legal system,if an unusual defense is argued well by shrewed attorney's and judges agree,then society has to live with that for better or for worse.That is precedent and English common law,if you can't stomach it go live in continental Europe where they don't put as much emphasis on precedent or juries.

In the case of Dylann Roof there are no real arguments being made that havn't been made in a thousand other death penalty appeals, precedent isn't even in the ballpark.Looking for any type of mental disease or defect is one of the first things a death penalty appeals lawyer will do,abuse,neglect or any other mitigating factor's are also quikely looked into as well and this is standard procedure.These arguments might stigmatize other people with mental and psychological disorders but as the law is concerned saving a life takes precidence over hurt feelings.

Most judges are good judges and make sound decisions based on the law,however mitigating factor's are taken with more weight in a death penalty case and in a death penalty case(excluding Florida and Texas)a judge might error on the side of the defendent more easily in a death penalty case.Govenor's in Illinois and California just commuted every death sentence to life in prison,a death sentence is never a sure thing that a person will actually get put to death.The Boston bomber is appealing his death sentence in federal court on the grounds that the trial should never have been held in Boston,which is insulting to Bostonians but the law gives a defendent rights and that is how our system works.

I understand that you feel upset by Roof's lawyers tactics but it's there job and they have to do it.And if a judge sets precedent with a ruling than for better or worse society must live with it.

The legal system working the way it should takes precedence over peoples hurt feeling or feelings of stigmatization,it isn't always pretty or always work the way it should but it's our legal system for better or for worse.

Ok.

I suppose that if they can make a defense out of "affluenza" then they can do so for autism.

Or the "twinky defense".

You do realise if the court accepts this then it sends a message to the public that autism is a risk factor behind becoming a mass murderer or serial killer.

Much of roof's paranoia about African Americans could be explained by his schizophrenia which may be a more pertinent trigger

I think I have heard of obesity and other physical health as being an argument to not go through with the death penalty. It doesn't necessarily equate to everyone on blood pressure meds is a murderer.

The criminal justice system does not exist to be sensitive to people with disabilities,and sometimes judges do make mistakes and those mistakes will effect society.It is the price of a justice system that errors on the side of the individual(god forbid any of us are ever in that defendents chair).

The good news is judges get it right most of the time and usually a case that becomes legal precedent makes the system better.

This is also not the first time autism has been a defense,I know of a case in Boston about 10 years ago that autism was used as a defense.The defense did not work in that case,there will be no precedent in the Roof case,worry not.

The criminal justice system does not exist to be sensitive to people with disabilities or to be concerned with the public's perception of a group of people.

When a citizen's freedom or life is at stake the attorney that defends them has the right and the legal obligation to use any tool at his disposal to defend his client,that is the system.