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kraftiekortie
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07 Sep 2021, 3:36 pm

Charlemagne lived about 800 years after Christ. You can't blame Christ for the actions and words of Charlemagne.



King0fSpades
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07 Sep 2021, 3:54 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Charlemagne lived about 800 years after Christ. You can't blame Christ for the actions and words of Charlemagne.



Frankly I dont CARE about what Christ stood for! Historical facts prove that Christians have been doing atrocious things to non-Christians for a very long time. And it's not JUST about Charlemagne, it's about EVERY European monarch and missionary who ever forced their beliefs on others under the threat of torture and death. Queen Isabella and the Spanish Inquisition, King Henry the VIII and the reforming of the English Church. Do you realize how many people were put to death as heretics by these followers of Christ?

Frankly I'd rather live in a country ruled by satanists than I would a country ruled by white Christian theocrats. They're much more evil as far as I will always be concerned. :roll:

Not that I'm attacking Christians themselves. I believe everybody is entitled to their beliefs. But whenever I hear Christians talk about the evils of any religion INCLUDING Satanism it annoys me because frankly Christians from all over have done plenty of evil too! But their excuse (whenever they even bother to excuse their own atrocious deeds) is always "Oh, well. Nobody is perfect except Jesus." :roll:


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kraftiekortie
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07 Sep 2021, 4:01 pm

I'm no Christian myself-----but back in the Roman days, it was a vast improvement over what the Romans had previously.

Ironically, though, Rome became really decadent after Christianity was legalized by Emperor Constantine.



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07 Sep 2021, 4:20 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm no Christian myself-----but back in the Roman days, it was a vast improvement over what the Romans had previously.

Ironically, though, Rome became really decadent after Christianity was legalized by Emperor Constantine.



Frankly I don't believe the tales of Roman society being the horribly corrupt wicked cesspool that we are taught to believe it was from the Christainized lens from which Western Civilization views the ancient world. I'm not denying that they didn't eventually fall victim to the kind of corruption that brought the collapse of their empire, but the Ancient Romans did a lot of good things in addition to bad things. They introduced so many good ideas to the world that we take for granted.


In my opinion they are almost exactly like the USA is today, and unfortunately I believe we are following down the same road to ruin as the Ancient Roman's did.


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07 Sep 2021, 5:27 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.



You know what's funny? Satanists were not the ones burning heretics at the stake or colonizing other countries so they could suck the resources dry and oppress the native populations.

Just saying.


Those sound like extremely anti-Christian actions, considering Christ never instructed his followers to commit atrocities.


See I don't believe that considering that Christians have been doing this for thousands of years ever since the Roman Empire collapsed and Emperor Charlemagne decided that everyone in Europe was going to become a Christian under threat of torture and death.


This was done for political reasons to unify the Empire. Italians have always been devout people. That's as true today as it was during the reign of Nero.



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07 Sep 2021, 5:37 pm

Axeman wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.



You know what's funny? Satanists were not the ones burning heretics at the stake or colonizing other countries so they could suck the resources dry and oppress the native populations.

Just saying.


Those sound like extremely anti-Christian actions, considering Christ never instructed his followers to commit atrocities.


See I don't believe that considering that Christians have been doing this for thousands of years ever since the Roman Empire collapsed and Emperor Charlemagne decided that everyone in Europe was going to become a Christian under threat of torture and death.


This was done for political reasons to unify the Empire. Italians have always been devout people. That's as true today as it was during the reign of Nero.


I resent the fact that Christians of all shapes and sizes have destroyed more cultures around the world than any other religion on the planet. And I'm not exaggerating on this!

I will never understand what was ever good about most of the world embracing a religion such as this one. Whenever Christians are given too much power and authority over people they always form a corrupt theocracy that gives the Taliban a run for its money.


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07 Sep 2021, 7:12 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
I resent the fact that Christians of all shapes and sizes have destroyed more cultures around the world than any other religion on the planet. And I'm not exaggerating on this!

I will never understand what was ever good about most of the world embracing a religion such as this one. Whenever Christians are given too much power and authority over people they always form a corrupt theocracy that gives the Taliban a run for its money.


My son suggests that if you study history one can see that most belief systems seem to go through a timeline that will include fundamentalist, colonial and violent phases. No belief system is exempt; the patterns of human nature won't change just because you change the name or remove deity from the equation. It seems to be human nature to want to spread and enforce one's belief system onto others. Atheists individuals are subject to the same temptation as theist ones: the hard core belief that the world would be better if everyone believed as they do. You are doing the same thing here, expressing a dangerously hardcore belief, by painting such a broad brush stroke against Christians. The only answer is to truly accept the rights of others to believe as they wish without judgement. I don't believe it is productive to look at the past and blame the belief system instead of the people. No doubt Christianity has had it failings, but, if my son's observation is true (and I think it is), that has more to do its long life cycle of prevalence in recorded human history than the belief system itself.


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07 Sep 2021, 7:18 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.


Why are you politicizing religious affiliations?

Because many elements of religious beliefs are near inherently political and philosophical.



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07 Sep 2021, 7:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.


What would make America finished is if we get the religious theocracy the evangelical conservatives want.


America never was and never will become a Christian religious theocracy.



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07 Sep 2021, 7:21 pm

Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Axeman wrote:
I thought these were adaptable unselfish empathic people. So these empathic normals are psychologically unable to handle a different kid? They would rather kill one in most cases then have one mess up their lives.


Human beings are complex creatures. It's possible to be a good person but be brainwashed by religious fervour to believe you have the right to judge others and tell other people what to do with their bodies and the fetus growing inside them.


That fetus is a human being too. It shouldn't be murdered because it's an inconvenience to it's parents. If that's the case why screw in the first place other then lack of self control.


I read this and see someone who has no clue why people actually end up having abortions. It is usually so much more complicated than your statement suggests. As I've pointed out on this thread, access to affordable healthcare and good information are the keys to ending abortion. This whole idea of "exercising self control" is just so completely unhelpful. I have talked with many women and learned their stories; their stories will break your heart. You have no idea. You simply have no idea.

Understand I am not and never have been a "my body my choice" type. I think elective abortion is morally wrong. But I didn't have to live a whole lot of life before I learned how incredibly complicated the situations can be. To end abortion, we have to understand and address the underlying causes and drop the inaccurately self-righteous judgement that usually comes into these conversations.

I apologize for my tone, but I find the common dialogue points to be incredibly frustrating. I can’t stand how they discount the real life experiences of women. You didn’t invent those lines; they are quite popular, but they have been seeded into our society from a misogynist viewpoint, an agenda that has no respect for women. I guess that is what makes me so angry, even though I am not one of the women any of this personally applies to. But as a mother, sister, and friend, I know what I don’t want anyone to face.


Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!


The same kind of man who would make such an abusive threat will find his way around any laws that man can create.

Consider, instead, if he had dealt with the mental issues his behavior indicates he had. Consider if he had been properly educated about autism. A strong healthcare system and good information can mitigate so much of what we all worry about.

What if he had known and had the option of giving her to a loving family that could accept her as she was?

For every example you can give me I can give you a three. Let's not play that game. It isn't a valid argument for the claim that laws are the best answer.


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07 Sep 2021, 7:24 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.


What would make America finished is if we get the religious theocracy the evangelical conservatives want.


America never was and never will become a Christian religious theocracy.


You are 100% wrong. Tell that to the victims of the Salem Witch Trials or the African slaves who were forced to give up their religions from Africa or else they would be beaten to death.


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07 Sep 2021, 7:41 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
Axeman wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.



You know what's funny? Satanists were not the ones burning heretics at the stake or colonizing other countries so they could suck the resources dry and oppress the native populations.

Just saying.


Those sound like extremely anti-Christian actions, considering Christ never instructed his followers to commit atrocities.


See I don't believe that considering that Christians have been doing this for thousands of years ever since the Roman Empire collapsed and Emperor Charlemagne decided that everyone in Europe was going to become a Christian under threat of torture and death.


This was done for political reasons to unify the Empire. Italians have always been devout people. That's as true today as it was during the reign of Nero.


I resent the fact that Christians of all shapes and sizes have destroyed more cultures around the world than any other religion on the planet. And I'm not exaggerating on this!

I will never understand what was ever good about most of the world embracing a religion such as this one. Whenever Christians are given too much power and authority over people they always form a corrupt theocracy that gives the Taliban a run for its money.


I am an atheist and I went through a hatred of religion phase of my own. I hope you grow out of it as I did.



Axeman
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07 Sep 2021, 7:49 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Mr Reynholm wrote:
So the Left now allies itself to Satanists?
America is finished.


What would make America finished is if we get the religious theocracy the evangelical conservatives want.


America never was and never will become a Christian religious theocracy.


You are 100% wrong. Tell that to the victims of the Salem Witch Trials or the African slaves who were forced to give up their religions from Africa or else they would be beaten to death.


The Salem Witch Trials were for the most part about land and property rights. I've studied them extensively. American colonial history and the occult are two of my interests. And they were a fart in a hurricane compared to the witch trials in Europe.



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07 Sep 2021, 7:51 pm

https://salemwitchmuseum.com/locations/border-disputes/



Axeman
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07 Sep 2021, 7:56 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Axeman wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Axeman wrote:
I thought these were adaptable unselfish empathic people. So these empathic normals are psychologically unable to handle a different kid? They would rather kill one in most cases then have one mess up their lives.


Human beings are complex creatures. It's possible to be a good person but be brainwashed by religious fervour to believe you have the right to judge others and tell other people what to do with their bodies and the fetus growing inside them.


That fetus is a human being too. It shouldn't be murdered because it's an inconvenience to it's parents. If that's the case why screw in the first place other then lack of self control.


I read this and see someone who has no clue why people actually end up having abortions. It is usually so much more complicated than your statement suggests. As I've pointed out on this thread, access to affordable healthcare and good information are the keys to ending abortion. This whole idea of "exercising self control" is just so completely unhelpful. I have talked with many women and learned their stories; their stories will break your heart. You have no idea. You simply have no idea.

Understand I am not and never have been a "my body my choice" type. I think elective abortion is morally wrong. But I didn't have to live a whole lot of life before I learned how incredibly complicated the situations can be. To end abortion, we have to understand and address the underlying causes and drop the inaccurately self-righteous judgement that usually comes into these conversations.

I apologize for my tone, but I find the common dialogue points to be incredibly frustrating. I can’t stand how they discount the real life experiences of women. You didn’t invent those lines; they are quite popular, but they have been seeded into our society from a misogynist viewpoint, an agenda that has no respect for women. I guess that is what makes me so angry, even though I am not one of the women any of this personally applies to. But as a mother, sister, and friend, I know what I don’t want anyone to face.


Do you know how many times my wife was told by her family that if there had been a test for Asperger's that she would have been aborted? Her father got right in her face once screaming that she wasn't the daughter he wanted!


The same kind of man who would make such an abusive threat will find his way around any laws that man can create.

Consider, instead, if he had dealt with the mental issues his behavior indicates he had. Consider if he had been properly educated about autism. A strong healthcare system and good information can mitigate so much of what we all worry about.

What if he had known and had the option of giving her to a loving family that could accept her as she was?

For every example you can give me I can give you a three. Let's not play that game. It isn't a valid argument for the claim that laws are the best answer.


She has me now and we are very happy together. I understand her perfectly.



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07 Sep 2021, 8:39 pm

Axeman wrote:

She has me now and we are very happy together. I understand her perfectly.


I’m sure you are and I’m sure you do. It’s a beautiful thing.

For the point if discussion, since your wife wasn’t the one ever considering abortion, I was looking further into the past and for what could have been different while also giving her a better life with her father. In case I hadn’t made that clear.


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