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Nades
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29 Nov 2021, 10:53 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
magz wrote:
According to its discoverer, Omicron infections tend to be mild, common-cold-like.
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/sa ... 021-11-28/

If this turns out to be a milder strain that would not be surprising. New variants have gotten incorrectly conflated as more severe strains. They have not been more severe they have been more transmissible. A main argument for vaccination has been an avoidable new variant would emerge that would evade the vaccine. That is still possible but the opposite is also possible and might be happening with Omicron. This does not negate the pro vaccine argument because more avoidable severe mutations are plausible. Also with more transmissibility comes more severe COVID cases even without the variant being more severe as we have seen.

Might is they key word, the data is very preliminary. If the discover doctor is seeing mostly people under 40 of course their cases will generally be mild this has been true through the whole pandemic.

If Omicron is as mild as suggested and large gatherings continue not to be superspreader events through the holiday season and you do not have any risk factors and especially if you are fully vaccinated it is probably ok to live your pre pandemic life. There are a couple of caveats. If you are at high risk you should probably take more severe migration measures because everybody else is not mask wearing and social distancing anymore. Also the risk of Long COVID is uncertain. Although the preliminary data on vaccinated people is encouraging very disabling Long COVID following mild COVID has not been uncommon. That uncertainty would need to weighed against the near certainty of further economic, societal, and psychological damage of continuing mitigation measures.


High risk people should always be vaccinated however, perhaps using the machine gun approach to vaccination might be preventing milder strains from emerging and competing with more deadly ones. The lack of vaccination in South Africa might have actually resulted in a safer strain to infect the planet. Not a bad thing for sure.

They need to be careful with vaccines in general though. A lot of people who were once pro-vaccine are becoming anti-vaccine, myself included, as the promised "game changing, state of the art" vaccine, that was promised to get us out of this situation has run its course and I for one am certainly not impressed with it. It's still running rampant through well vaccinated nations yet restrictions to try and prevent its spread are still in place.....despite this clearly not being possible.



Nades
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29 Nov 2021, 11:11 am

magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
If what they say is true and this new strain came from someone with AIDS
I'm encountering this for the first time.
So far, I only read speculations that so many mutations likely happened in one person infected for much longer time than normally - for whatever reason.


Scientists think this individual had HIV/AIDS and was likely unvaccinated.



magz
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29 Nov 2021, 11:58 am

Nades wrote:
Scientists think this individual had HIV/AIDS and was likely unvaccinated.

Source?


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29 Nov 2021, 12:05 pm

It is almost as if certain people are trying to defend the non-existent "right" of the coronavirus to exist...

Image
COVID IS BEING CANCELLED!!

:roll:



ASPartOfMe
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29 Nov 2021, 12:36 pm

Nades wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
magz wrote:
According to its discoverer, Omicron infections tend to be mild, common-cold-like.
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/sa ... 021-11-28/

If this turns out to be a milder strain that would not be surprising. New variants have gotten incorrectly conflated as more severe strains. They have not been more severe they have been more transmissible. A main argument for vaccination has been an avoidable new variant would emerge that would evade the vaccine. That is still possible but the opposite is also possible and might be happening with Omicron. This does not negate the pro vaccine argument because more avoidable severe mutations are plausible. Also with more transmissibility comes more severe COVID cases even without the variant being more severe as we have seen.

Might is they key word, the data is very preliminary. If the discover doctor is seeing mostly people under 40 of course their cases will generally be mild this has been true through the whole pandemic.

If Omicron is as mild as suggested and large gatherings continue not to be superspreader events through the holiday season and you do not have any risk factors and especially if you are fully vaccinated it is probably ok to live your pre pandemic life. There are a couple of caveats. If you are at high risk you should probably take more severe migration measures because everybody else is not mask wearing and social distancing anymore. Also the risk of Long COVID is uncertain. Although the preliminary data on vaccinated people is encouraging very disabling Long COVID following mild COVID has not been uncommon. That uncertainty would need to weighed against the near certainty of further economic, societal, and psychological damage of continuing mitigation measures.


High risk people should always be vaccinated however, perhaps using the machine gun approach to vaccination might be preventing milder strains from emerging and competing with more deadly ones. The lack of vaccination in South Africa might have actually resulted in a safer strain to infect the planet. Not a bad thing for sure.

They need to be careful with vaccines in general though. A lot of people who were once pro-vaccine are becoming anti-vaccine, myself included, as the promised "game changing, state of the art" vaccine, that was promised to get us out of this situation has run its course and I for one am certainly not impressed with it. It's still running rampant through well vaccinated nations yet restrictions to try and prevent its spread are still in place.....despite this clearly not being possible.

People expected and it was sold as the next Polio or measles vaccine. Many many vaccines do not work that way, never have. The flu shot is 40 to 60 percent effective but like the COVID vaccine does significantly reduce the chances of severe illness. It could be argued that unlike with Polio vaccines herd immunity is not a factor with the flu shot because a large percentage of people do not take it. Shingles is not transmissible yet the previous vaccine was 51 percent effective. In this era the way a lot of people think is if it does not work perfectly it must be a hoax. Nobody has figured out a way to counter that way of thinking, most attempts have been counterproductive.


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Nades
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29 Nov 2021, 12:55 pm

magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
Scientists think this individual had HIV/AIDS and was likely unvaccinated.

Source?


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... v-patient/



Nades
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29 Nov 2021, 1:36 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
People expected and it was sold as the next Polio or measles vaccine. Many many vaccines do not work that way, never have. The flu shot is 40 to 60 percent effective but like the COVID vaccine does significantly reduce the chances of severe illness. It could be argued that unlike with Polio vaccines herd immunity is not a factor with the flu shot because a large percentage of people do not take it. Shingles is not transmissible yet the previous vaccine was 51 percent effective. In this era the way a lot of people think is if it does not work perfectly it must be a hoax. Nobody has figured out a way to counter that way of thinking, most attempts have been counterproductive.


It does help greatly with reducing deaths but this is almost exclusively with vulnerable people which in it's own right is very important. The vaccine works well in that sense and anyone vulnerable should have it.

The other main benefit of vaccines which is disease control is equally as important, if not more important and all Covid vaccines are very poor at controlling the spread. Sadly, all government polices as of recent has been about controlling the spread so for the last year we've been p*****g in the wind and always will be with a vaccine that does little to control spread. This is just one of those viruses that vaccines will always do a very poor job of controlling. (As much as the government said otherwise when the pandemic started)

After an extremely effective vaccine rollout with most people having multiple vaccines within the last year and many now having boosters, 1 in 65 people still being infected is beyond dire for this supposed wonder vaccine we were all promised that would "get us out of the woods" and the one I initially rolled up my arm for in good faith.

Office of national statistics in the UK. Among the best sources for info on the virus or anything for that matter.



Nades
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29 Nov 2021, 1:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
It is almost as if certain people are trying to defend the non-existent "right" of the coronavirus to exist...
Image
COVID IS BEING CANCELLED!!

:roll:


Viruses like this never have a right to exist. It's just that trying to eliminate it is virtually impossible but governments around the world along with the general public appear to be attempting it. Alchemy and perpetual motion machines seem more feasible than eradicating or even controlling Covid.



kraftiekortie
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29 Nov 2021, 1:52 pm

I agree that, ultimately, variants will become milder, like most coronaviruses. Hopefully, the Omicron variant will prove to be relatively mild.

Still, the present-day Delta variant causes considerable death and hospitalizations, especially in the unvaccinated. COVID is still acting like a “novel” virus.



magz
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29 Nov 2021, 2:00 pm

Nades wrote:
magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
Scientists think this individual had HIV/AIDS and was likely unvaccinated.

Source?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... v-patient/

Thanks. The scientists call in "speculative" and it looks like it's one of the suspected possibilities, the other being simply gaps in sequencing intermediate forms of the virus.

Anyway, we're living with globally spilled milk. Closing borders won't help with Omicron, it's already in UK and Schengen. The question is, is it really milder than Delta?
Here, hospital workers claim Delta is more dangerous to younger people, children and pregnant women than either the original strain or Alpha. So, the evolution towards milder form is not obvious and, even if real, probably much slower than towards easier spread.

We're living in unpredictable times and nothing can be really done about it.


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aghogday
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29 Nov 2021, 2:01 pm



Republican Leadership, So Disgusting,

Ronnie Jackson, The Former Lying
Surgeon General That Made

Trump into A Trim

Fit 243 Pound Dude
Like me Hehe;

Attempts to

Claim That the Omicron

Variant is Fake News; Yes,

Generated By Democrats

To Win the Mid-Terms By
Forcing Vote By Mail Again;

And Then Fox News Fiends,

Ahem, So-Called FRiEnDS, Pile

It On Intimating The Same Along

With Spreading Encouraging Words

That Natural Immunity is Preferable

Over Getting Vaccinated As Of Course

That is What The Highly Conspiracy Theory Flaked

Base of the Anti-Vaxxer's Now Who Support All Stuff

Trump Wanna Hear in the Ignorant Target Audience

of the Fox News Grift That Sees a 'Sucker Born' Every

Minute

to Take

Advantage

of "On Fifth Avenue"

As Part Of the TRumP Gospel News of Big Lies
And Gaslighting Reality For Years to Come, if Possible...

Problem is Yes, "Some Folks" Really Don't Have Enough Attention Left
Now to Even See or Care About What's Going on, As Overall Science
Does Suggest Humans Now on Average Have the Attention Span
of Less Than A Gold Fish; Yes, Literally Less than Three Seconds

About Long

Enough to

See What

Car is Pretty

In A Commercial

On TV to Buy; Or

Some Woman Dressed
Nearly Down to Nothing

To Sell What Ever Is New
on the Menu on Fox News too...

Although, i Must Admit Fox News

Has Cleaned Up That Bit Under the
Glass Tables Some Since Bill O'Reilly's
Spin on the "Me Too Movement", Now

An Aim Seems Molesting Democracy For Our Ability to Be Free,

Just To Make Frigging Money; Just to Make Frigging Money, Keeping

Status and Power too...

Oh, The Human

Condition the

Shadow Knows

Our Reptile Brain;

Indeed, "No Variant

HeaR" As Predictable as

Demagogues And All Who/What
Comes to Allow THeir Fall Again...

True, "Pandemic", Serves As A "Viable"

Metaphor For Modern Politics And
HiStorical Politics THiS Way True too...



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Nades
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29 Nov 2021, 2:18 pm

magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
Scientists think this individual had HIV/AIDS and was likely unvaccinated.

Source?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... v-patient/

Thanks. The scientists call in "speculative" and it looks like it's one of the suspected possibilities, the other being simply gaps in sequencing intermediate forms of the virus.

Anyway, we're living with globally spilled milk. Closing borders won't help with Omicron, it's already in UK and Schengen. The question is, is it really milder than Delta?
Here, hospital workers claim Delta is more dangerous to younger people, children and pregnant women than either the original strain or Alpha. So, the evolution towards milder form is not obvious and, even if real, probably much slower than towards easier spread.

We're living in unpredictable times and nothing can be really done about it.


By the time a new variant is spotted it's already to late. Anyone with a new variant has been spreading it around for quite a while before they become ill enough to get tested or hospitalized. The whole closing borders thing will and always has been pointless the second the virus left china in 2019.


Eventually all viruses that are in regular contact with humans evolve into milder forms. What's a certain is that this new strain is still probably dangerous to vulnerable groups and they are the ones who should get the vaccine first. I don't know however is vaccinating everyone and anyone outside of vulnerable groups might actually be hampering any evolution the virus is having to becoming milder.

If it's not sticking around in people very long because everyone is vaccinated then it might just take longer to become milder. Even Spanish Flu was wrapped up quicker than this and they had virtually none of the medical understanding we have today.



Soliloquist
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29 Nov 2021, 2:26 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Still, the present-day Delta variant causes considerable death and hospitalizations, especially in the unvaccinated. COVID is still acting like a “novel” virus.


You are well aware that the facts released by the UK government
don't support this, but you still press on with this narrative.
Care to explain why?
Image
UK Government vaccine surveillance report week 43



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29 Nov 2021, 2:27 pm

Quote:
CMO Professor Paul Kelly says Australia is currently on 'alert' and 'not alarmed' over Omicron COVID-19 variant

Professor Paul Kelly says some reports from South Africa about the Omicron variant indicate symptoms are "mostly mild" but hospitalisation rates are also increasing.

Dominica Funnell
Digital Reporter

November 29, 2021

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-ne ... rallPos=12



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29 Nov 2021, 2:33 pm

magz wrote:
According to its discoverer, Omicron infections tend to be mild, common-cold-like.
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/sa ... 021-11-28/


It has even been suggested that the Omicron could act like natural vaccination process.
Perhaps god has taken pity on us and intervened.
I suspect not. 8)



Nades
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29 Nov 2021, 2:38 pm

Soliloquist wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Still, the present-day Delta variant causes considerable death and hospitalizations, especially in the unvaccinated. COVID is still acting like a “novel” virus.


You are well aware that the facts released by the UK government
don't support this, but you still press on with this narrative.
Care to explain why?
Image
UK Government vaccine surveillance report week 43


I see it doesn't really like killing the young too as was always well known. Shame the young are seen as actually vulnerable to this when they're not.