Teacher jailed for violating court order over a pronoun row

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So a trans person is prohibited from choosing a name that you don't like?

That link is to "78 gender neutral pronouns." You said there were 78 genders. Now you can't figure out the difference between genders and pronouns ? Wow. I think maybe you've had one too many to drink tonight or something.

My bad, there are only 72 genders.

What Are The 72 Other Genders?

Would you say Prince Rogers is a title?

i dont get why gender neutral pronouns are being compared to names or manners, as i never knew either to land a person in jail if they forgot a persons name, mispronounced it, or were ill mannered.

hacking can b used for good . i like some hackers.

Did you read the article?

whoops, missed that bit. its been compared to names in other threads though , i thought this was a continuation of that


i supposed theres more to the story, i hope there is, for them to send him away from the school temporarily. it cant be based only on someone deliberately getting someones name and pronoun wrong can it ? i mean its rude, mean too, but its not unusual for teachers to be that way

He didn't make a simple mistake. He refused to refer to the student by their preferred pronouns, which were agreed upon between the student and the school. The teacher was instructed to respectfully use them and instead decided to be insubordinate, resulting in his suspension and eventual court order not to be on the premises - which he violated and was jailed for.

i said he was being deliberate . i said they cant send him away just for that. yes there are lots of mean teachers around and they dont get jailed just for being rude and mean

I think this thread has digressed into a generalized argument which really doesn't apply in this case.

One student had asked for, and received, approval from the school to use the pronoun "they." It isn't anymore complicated than that. It wasn't an arbitrary request; it was approved by the school, presumably following some sort of formal process.

The school had instructed the teacher to use the chosen pronoun. As the teacher's employer, this was an official request, basically a job requirement.

The teacher refused to follow the employer's request, citing religious reasons.

The school began a disciplinary process, I would assume for insubordination, and placed the teacher on paid administrative leave while a decision was being formulated.

The teacher refused to stay out of the classroom as required by the employer.

The employer obtained a court order to keep the teacher from coming on the property.

The teacher violated the court order.

The teacher is sentenced to jail for being in violation of a court order.

None of this has anything to do with 78 genders. We're talking about one individual who couldn't accept anyone telling him he couldn't do everything exactly as he wanted on school property.

In the broader concept of using gender pronouns, these decisions are going to happen one at a time, each time considering the unique facts and circumstances. Neither "Society," public pressure" or the student made an arbitrary decision to enforce an unusual pronoun usage. An employer evaluated facts and circumstances, made a decision, then told its employees to comply. No part of the employer's request violated any laws or asked for compliance with something way far out of social norms. One individual felt the request violated his beliefs, and that happens. I've gone toe to toe with an employer over something they wanted me to do that I felt would be unethical. But in that situation I knew full well the employer had the right to make the request, and that if I couldn't win the argument, I would either have to comply or quit the job (I won the argument). This case with the teacher isn't some allegory for society as a whole, nor a referendum on pronoun usage requests; it's about an employer choosing one route and employee wanting another, with the employee consciously escalating the conflict to the point of being in violation of an actual court order.

This situation is not a great hill for those who oppose gender affirming pronoun usage to stake their flag on. Employers have the right, within reason, to decide how to run their organizations. They also have the right to decide who is allowed on their property. And court orders need to be followed or you go to jail.

The only interesting twist I see is what constitutes religious freedom in Ireland, but the teacher seems to have multiple opportunities to make his case on that issue, and seems to have lost, or it wouldn't have reached the point it reached.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 08 Sep 2022, 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

So then you do understand. He was being disrespectful to the student & insubordinate to his boss' instructions. Why wouldn't he be sent away (from the school) for it?

He was jailed for violating a court order, not for being disrespectful to the student.

There is more to the story, which I felt was clear when reading the actual story.

The teacher was put on administrative leave during disciplinary proceedings over his refusal to use a student's new name and gender-neutral pronouns.

In other words if the child came up with the new name "Frankenstein" and wanted to be referred to as "it" the teacher had to comply.

And then you summarized it quite nicely above.

70 something pronouns matrix doesn't approve of are irrelevant as the teacher was only asked to remember and use one, "they."

and in reply to goldfish