8-Year-Old Accused of Murders Kept Spanking Tally

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familiar_stranger
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01 Dec 2008, 6:33 pm

Fnord wrote:

For another, I do not have to take your ... "legal" :roll:

... opinions seriously.

so i'm not good enough for you to take seriously?

my point was it's wrong for him to have to stay behind bars for the rest of his life, that it's wrong to be punished a decade later so the punishment is more severe, and that a quick death beats a lifetime of suffering hands down.

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Fnord
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01 Dec 2008, 6:40 pm

familiar_stranger wrote:

Fnord wrote:

For another, I do not have to take your ... "legal" :roll:

... opinions seriously.

so i'm not good enough for you to take seriously?

Since you asked ... No, you are not good enough for me to take you seriously, but only within the context that you are not a legal professional with license to practice the legal profession within the jurisdiction in which the crime in question took place. Other than that, you're an okay bloke.

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ShadesOfMe
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01 Dec 2008, 7:00 pm

Fnord wrote:

familiar_stranger wrote:

Fnord wrote:

For another, I do not have to take your ... "legal" :roll:

... opinions seriously.

so i'm not good enough for you to take seriously?

Why do you always act as if you are better than everyone else? Including animals? You aren't better than anyone else, and it's about time you learn that!

greenblue
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01 Dec 2008, 8:16 pm

Fnord wrote:

For another, I do not have to take your ... "legal" :roll:

... opinions seriously.

And..... no one here has to take your legal opinions, or any other opinion for that matter, seriously either.

And well, your opinions are mere opinions and are subjected to arguments and corrections and can be questioned as anyone else's, don't give more value to your own perspective than the others without questioning them first, after all, what you come up is only your own perception and your own personal opinion.

Fnord wrote:

Since you asked ... No, you are not good enough for me to take you seriously,

I sense some arrogance here, if not a lot, and you often wonder why some are "delusional". Frankly, I find this level of certainty and arrogance pretty absurd.

Quote:

but only within the context that you are not a legal professional with license to practice the legal profession within the jurisdiction in which the crime in question took place. Other than that, you're an okay bloke.

Are you a legal professional?

If you are not then perhaps you should not place yourself above others just as you recently did.

ShadesOfMe wrote:

Why do you always act as if you are better than everyone else? Including animals? You aren't better than anyone else, and it's about time you learn that!

It seems that some don't learn with this, even at his age, heck, I believe he had used the fallacy of ageism to support himself believing to be in a better position with a younger oponnent in an argument before. (The age thing is pointless, which I wanted to bring this in as an example)

I would call him delusional if he is so convinced that his approach is the best way and better then the rest here.

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Last edited by greenblue on 01 Dec 2008, 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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01 Dec 2008, 8:19 pm

At least I am an American discussing an American legal issue, GB!

Other than that, you've pretty well pwned me! :lol:

At least, your opinion I can (sometimes) respect.

ShadesOfMe
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01 Dec 2008, 8:33 pm

greenblue wrote:

Fnord wrote:

For another, I do not have to take your ... "legal" :roll:

... opinions seriously.

Fnord wrote:

Since you asked ... No, you are not good enough for me to take you seriously,

I sense some arrogance here, if not a lot, and you often wonder why some are "delusional". Frankly, I find this level of certainty and arrogance pretty absurd.

Quote:

Are you a legal professional?

If you are not then perhaps you should not place yourself above others just as you recently did.

ShadesOfMe wrote:

Why do you always act as if you are better than everyone else? Including animals? You aren't better than anyone else, and it's about time you learn that!

Wonderful post! You summed up everything nicely. and betetr yet, you got your point through without insults.

ShadesOfMe
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01 Dec 2008, 9:19 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/08/child.charged.ap/

Slain father taught boy to use guns, priest says

violet_yoshi
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02 Dec 2008, 2:01 am

Macbeth wrote:

violet_yoshi wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

violet_yoshi wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

violet_yoshi wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

violet_yoshi wrote:

I wonder if anyone will now see that spanking is child abuse. It's also in a way sexual abuse, since a person's behind is close to their genitals. So really, it's pretty close to a form of rape, someone taking your pants down and manipulating you.

I guess next time I see an animal spank their child, I can say "I hope he has the sense to kill you like that boy in the news" Well that is what I would want to say to them, I imagine if someone can be that sadistic towards a child, there's nothing stopping them from physically attacking another adult either.

That's highly unlikely, and something of an unfair generalisation. To compare anyone who has ever spanked a child with some kind of sadistic rapist is insulting, wrong and ret*d. There are thousands of children (of roughly my age or thereabouts) who received a slap as a means of discipline at some point in their youthful careers. There are whole generations of people who were regularly subjected to corporal punishment at home and school. How many of them went on to slaughter their parents? How many of their parents were sadistic abusive child rapists?

And you have a fairly odd take on what constitutes sexual abuse, I might add. If someone kicks you in the nuts in a fight is that sexual abuse, or just fighting? Glad to see you encourage patricide in toddlers as well.

Did I bring up the term rapist in what I said? I said it's CLOSE to a form of rape, I didn't CALL it rape.

How many of those kids do you know weren't held in such terror that their only resort would be to disassociate, or end up with another mental pathology attributed to abuse. People have developed multiple personalities, so one personality copes with the pain, while the other one dissassociates, you call that a healthy result of parent to child aggression?

I don't encourage patricide in toddlers. However, since you assumed that of me, I'm wondering. Do you encourage parents to take their aggressions out physically on their children? Do you believe that children really just learn how to cope from a situation, where they have to always make sure they see mommy or daddy is in a good mood, or else they'll get hit?

If it was a woman in an abusive relationship, would you be so quick to side with the abuser? This is worse then that, it's a defenseless child, who depends on their parents. A child left in terror of those who were supposed to care for him.

One more thing, people who call other people or their views ret*d, are just displaying how they behave in a manner that would be considered ret*d. Lack of social skills, knowledge of behavior towards others.

You are very quick to assume that all "spankings" are Adult aggression being taken out on weaker individuals, or only ever results from a bad mood. As I said, thousands (millions perhaps) of children grew up with corporal punishment, and very few ended up psychotic because of it. You assume that every child who ever got spanked grew up terrified of their parents, when you can see people saying that they arent and weren't right here in front of you.

Nor is it generally comparable to other domestic abuse. People have already mentioned that without enough extra detail, there can be no way of knowing how abusive this "spanking" was. Hands? Fists? Belts? One clip round the ear or daily beatings for an hour? What had he done to trigger the punishment? Anything? Nothing?

You are very quick to assume that all "spankings" aren't done based off of malicious intent. There are thousands of parents who raise their children just fine without spanking, so therefore the point is made that it is unecessary to a child's developement. So now why would a parent participate in a uneccessary behavior, that could harm or hurt their child, unless they were getting some thrill from it?

We're not talking about a little slap on the behind, which I'm sure in your fantasy world, is as far as spanking goes. We're talking about parents who pull a child's pants down, who pull a child's underwear down, and hit them. You want to pretend because it's put under the guise of discipline, that it's reasonable. The only difference between spanking and rape, is nothing is being put into the child. Even then, you can't be sure of that either, right?

You really are getting carried away with these definitions are you not? Why does "spanking" have to involve stripping the child bare? It doesn't... Punishments, by definition, are supposed to be unpleasant. I never said I agree with beating a child half to death btw, I dont. I just think that you're putting too much credence in the belief that anyone who spanks a child is trying to sexually abuse them.

Spanking is stripping the child bare. Now if you want to continue on fighting "No no no! It can't be true!", fine. Don't get upset if some of us perfer to deal with these horrible issues and stop them, rather than hiding behind a false sense of all is well in the world, like you apparently fighting to do.

Why are you so frightened of having to deal with the reality, that not all parents have the best interests of their child at heart? Does it ruin your comfortable fantasy life, in fantasyland where everyone means good and well towards each other? Perhaps you never grew out of the stage where children believe play pretend is real.

I'm under no such delusion. I merely disliked the tone of your post, because of what it insinuated about the millions of parents who use corporal punishment who ARENT sexually abusingtheir kids atall, and would never dream of such.

You don't like my post because it brings about the reality you refuse to face, corporal punishment does not do anything but teach a child fear. Why are you so adamant about defending people who terrorize children, and steal away their childhoods and innocence? I find it fascinating that the most adamant defenders of spanking, are those who have been spanked themselves. It seems almost as if they would rather perpetuate and continue the abuse, rather than admit it happened to them, and that it was wrong. Perhaps it's easier for them to believe there was some purpose or reason to why they were hit.

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02 Dec 2008, 2:38 am

http://www.nospank.net/leach.htm

This link explains why some people, despite common sense that hitting a child is wrong, will defend spanking:

http://www.nospank.net/gruen.htm

familiar_stranger
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02 Dec 2008, 8:33 am

Fnord wrote:

At least I am an American discussing an American legal issue, GB!

Other than that, you've pretty well pwned me! :lol:

At least, your opinion I can (sometimes) respect.

it doesn't matter where i am in the world i will still believe what i believe, if someone in the UK commited certain acts then i would easily condemn them to a painfull execution even though over here the death penalty isn't even active anymore.

i wasn't ever speaking form a legal point of view, only my point of view. if something happened in the UK and you stated your oppinion i wouldn't come back with something such as i'm english so you have no say. if you think about it that is quite racist

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Macbeth
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02 Dec 2008, 8:55 am

familiar_stranger wrote:

Fnord wrote:

At least I am an American discussing an American legal issue, GB!

Other than that, you've pretty well pwned me! :lol:

At least, your opinion I can (sometimes) respect.

Only Americans know about America, and only Lawyers can comment on matters of law. I've seen this before a great deal. If you are not a fully qualified specialist in the subject at hand, with at least degree-level education in the subject being discussed, you cant possibly know what the f**k your talking about, and be ignored.. wonderful attitude given that it effectively precludes any conversation about anything between non-specialists.

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Macbeth
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02 Dec 2008, 9:01 am

violet_yoshi wrote:

How many people have to state quite clearly that their childhoods and innocence were never "stolen away" before you accept that not all events of corporal punishment are soul destroying rapes of mind and soul? No, I was never particularly beaten, nor to my memory bare-ass spanked, but I received several clips and got whacked across the back of the legs a few times. I was never abused, my parents certainly were not rapists or terrorizing me, and in every case there was an obvious reason for such punishment.. ie I was engaged in activity which was wrong, dangerous etc etc.

A generation of adults live in fear of their children. Why is this? Because those children have NO FEAR of any reprisal or punishment AT ALL from any force, be it civilian or legal.

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familiar_stranger
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02 Dec 2008, 9:31 am

Macbeth wrote:

Only Americans know about America,

i'm not from ancient greece yet i know more than most about their mythology and culture. you don't have to be from somewhere to know about it.

Quote:

and only Lawyers can comment on matters of law.

correction, many people can comment on matters of law but lawyers are the ones who defend people in court.

Quote:

I've seen this before a great deal. If you are not a fully qualified specialist in the subject at hand, with at least degree-level education in the subject being discussed, you cant possibly know what the f**k your talking about, and be ignored.. wonderful attitude given that it effectively precludes any conversation about anything between non-specialists.

i read the article and in my time on this planet i have looked into many different cases and worked my fingers to the bone working on what i did, i may not have the qualification but many people have told me a career in law is well suited for me with the only downside being my personal views on matters clouding my judgement.

once again, i'm talking about my point of view, not as a judge or lawyer but myself the same as others.

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Macbeth
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02 Dec 2008, 2:56 pm

familiar_stranger wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Only Americans know about America,

i'm not from ancient greece yet i know more than most about their mythology and culture. you don't have to be from somewhere to know about it.

Quote:

and only Lawyers can comment on matters of law.

correction, many people can comment on matters of law but lawyers are the ones who defend people in court.

Quote:

I know this. I was quantifying the statement Fnord made (and he not the first and will not be the last to use that attitude) based on my experiences here, oft as not with Americans... the counterargument that eventually gets applied..a counter argument that I believe is utterly foolish. Mayhaps my post did not clearly define enough how I feel about the "you dont know cause you werent there" mindset.

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02 Dec 2008, 11:09 pm

violet_yoshi wrote:

http://www.nospank.net/leach.htm

Good article.

I particularly liked the bit about how a child being spanked doesn't know the reason why he is being punished because all he can think about is what the adult is doing to him. It reminds me of how I felt when my parents spanked me.

I also liked the alternatives to spanking given in the article.

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ShadesOfMe
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02 Dec 2008, 11:47 pm

violet_yoshi wrote:

http://www.nospank.net/leach.htm

This link explains why some people, despite common sense that hitting a child is wrong, will defend spanking:

http://www.nospank.net/gruen.htm

Thanks for posting those links. The first one is quite long. I can't wait to dig in to it!!

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