McCain under fire for blaming blazes on alien invaders

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John_Browning
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21 Jun 2011, 10:03 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110621/ap_on_re_us/us_western_wildfires

SIERRA VISTA, Ariz. – As if Arizona's immigration debate wasn't already hot, Sen. John McCain has ignited a barrage of criticism by saying that there is "substantial evidence" that illegal immigrants are partly responsible for wildfires in the state.

McCain is standing by the statement he made over the weekend as he toured a massive wildfire in eastern Arizona, but immigrant rights advocates say the state's senior senator is using illegal immigrants as scapegoats. Authorities have said humans started the three major blazes in Arizona, but investigators don't know any more details.

"It's his constant refrain for everything that ails mankind," said Roberto Reveles, the founding president and a current member of the Phoenix-based Hispanic civil rights group Somos America. "It just seems like we have an epidemic of, `Blame it all on the illegal aliens, blame it all on the Mexicans.' It's amazing that the public doesn't rebel against this type of scapegoating."

The ruckus over McCain's comments came as thousands of evacuated Arizonans were allowed to return home from a wildfire that has destroyed 58 homes on the outskirts of Sierra Vista, Ariz., about 15 miles north of the Mexico border. An estimated 1,600 people remain evacuated.

The high winds that prompted additional evacuations and destroyed 14 homes and four businesses Sunday became considerably calmer Monday.

"We are very, very upbeat and confident that we are starting to turn a corner," said Mark Goeller, operations chief for the team fighting the so-called Monument fire, which has burned more than 42 square miles since it started about a week ago. It was 40 percent contained Monday night.

Along the border with New Mexico, the biggest blaze in state history has charred an area nearly 20 times that size but hasn't done as much damage to structures.

Despite burning more than 811 square miles since late May, the Wallow fire has destroyed just 32 homes and four rental cabins. Containment rose to 56 percent Monday.

The third major blaze, in the far southeastern part of the state, was 80 percent contained after charring more than 330 square miles since it started May 8. That fire, dubbed Horseshoe Two, has destroyed 23 structures.

Officials say all three blazes are the result of human activity. Whether illegal immigrants were involved — as has sometimes been the case — is unknown.

The issue heated up over the weekend when McCain told reporters: "There is substantial evidence that some of these fires have been caused by people who have crossed our border illegally. The answer to that part of the problem is to get a secure border."

McCain and fellow Arizona Republicans Sen. Jon Kyl and Rep. Paul Gosar released a joint statement Monday defending McCain, saying they had been told that some fires in the southern part of the state are started by illegal immigrants. They did not specify to which fires they were referring but framed the debate as a distraction.

"While Arizonans continue to face the enormous challenges related to these wildfires, it's unfortunate that some are inserting their political agenda into this tragedy," their statement said.

Rep. Raul Grijalva, a Democrat who represents southwestern Arizona, disagreed with that depiction.

"They served this, they pandered it, and now (they) say that anybody who criticizes that inappropriate, unsubstantiated claim somehow has a political agenda. This is a tragedy of huge proportions for Arizona. Those of us who criticize it are only reacting to what they started."

On the fire lines in Sierra Vista, neighborhoods that had been shrouded in a massive plume of black smoke a day earlier were free of it Monday, and the towering mountain that fed the flames was smoldering.

Those forced from their homes waited to be escorted back in.

James Hernandez, a retired graphic artist who lives in Hereford, rushed back from vacation in California on Saturday when he heard that the fire had worsened and had jumped four-lane state Route 92.

"The flames went over that," Hernandez said, noting that wildfires are a part of summer life in southern Arizona and normally aren't cause for concern. "They have never done that before."

As for the Wallow blaze, authorities kept about 200 residents of Luna, N.M., under an evacuation order for a third day Monday. One of the last areas still evacuated near that fire in Arizona reopened Monday as residents of the resort town of Greer began to return home.

Authorities reported a new wildfire in north-central Arizona that officials said could threaten power lines running to Phoenix as well as some scattered ranches. The blaze, about 40 miles northeast of Payson, had burned about 305 acres by Monday.

There were several other significant wildfires burning across the southwestern U.S.:

• Officials in southeast Texas ordered the evacuation of about 1,800 homes and businesses as a fire believed to have been sparked by a barbecue pit burned early 8 square miles northwest of Houston. Two people were injured and nearly 30 homes were destroyed. It was one of many blazes firefighters were battling across the drought-plagued state, including 20 others that the Texas Forest Service said involved more than 120 square miles and consumed at least 35 homes combined.

• Firefighters in central California were battling a blaze that has burned more than 8 square miles of grassland. A 19th century cattle branding camp and another outbuilding were destroyed. The blaze was 75 percent contained early Monday and full containment was expected by Tuesday.

• Nine miles north of Santa Fe, N.M., smoke rose from the mountains for a third afternoon as the Pacheco Canyon fire marched toward the rugged Pecos Wilderness. The fire spread to 3,800 acres, or about 6 square miles, by Monday. No homes were in the path of the flames, but a power line was threatened.


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John_Browning
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21 Jun 2011, 10:05 pm

There's just one problem with the subversive Mexican groups' claims- individual border patrol agents are telling the same story as McCain and Kyl.


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Fnord
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21 Jun 2011, 10:13 pm

Just because a man is right, it does not mean that he's racist.



ruveyn
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22 Jun 2011, 8:46 am

John_Browning wrote:
There's just one problem with the subversive Mexican groups' claims- individual border patrol agents are telling the same story as McCain and Kyl.


You have a source for that? Please share.

ruveyn



techn0teen
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22 Jun 2011, 12:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
Just because a man is right, it does not mean that he's racist.


It might not be racist but when he makes it seem a whole community is at fault for the actions of the few, that's irresponsible.

What McCain said is the equivalent of three black people starting fires and then saying "blacks caused the wildfires".

He is factually correct but has taken it out of context for political gain and to generate unrest. If he said "Three illegal immigrants caused the wildfires", then that would have been fair game. Sometimes, it's not what you say but how you say it.



Aldran
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22 Jun 2011, 12:59 pm

John_Browning wrote:
There's just one problem with the subversive Mexican groups' claims- individual border patrol agents are telling the same story as McCain and Kyl.


I could also ask, how much Fire Investigation/Forensics does the average Border Patrol Guard get? Or do they just get the Border Patrol Training one would expect them to? Its all fine and good to be a Border Guard and say "Well, we think it was the Illegal Immigrants", but short of eye witness 'Yes, I saw the blaze start from their illegal camp fire in their illegal presence', are they just speculating that it was started by illegals because there either knew, or are just guessing, that there were illegals in the area? Because its not like the US doesn't have alot of outdoors minded people that do things like forget to put their fire out after having a few too many beers.....



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22 Jun 2011, 9:43 pm

How disappointing....I was hoping to read that McCain was blaming spacemen, not Mexicans.



John_Browning
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23 Jun 2011, 2:24 am

ruveyn wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
There's just one problem with the subversive Mexican groups' claims- individual border patrol agents are telling the same story as McCain and Kyl.


You have a source for that? Please share.

ruveyn


Keep in mind that there were no campers in the area and it is extremely rare for anyone to go there for recreational purposes this time of year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/arizona-wildfires-immigrants-drug-smugglers-mccain_n_882160.html?ir=Green

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2011/06/22/20110622arizona-sheriff-dever-says-monument-fire-started-by-immigrants.html

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_559f6633-2149-5db9-b404-286fd61bd296.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/22/arizona-sheriff-wildfires-likely-started-by-mexican-drug-traffickers-smugglers


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ruveyn
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23 Jun 2011, 11:30 am

John_Browning wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
There's just one problem with the subversive Mexican groups' claims- individual border patrol agents are telling the same story as McCain and Kyl.


You have a source for that? Please share.

ruveyn


Keep in mind that there were no campers in the area and it is extremely rare for anyone to go there for recreational purposes this time of year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/arizona-wildfires-immigrants-drug-smugglers-mccain_n_882160.html?ir=Green

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2011/06/22/20110622arizona-sheriff-dever-says-monument-fire-started-by-immigrants.html

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_559f6633-2149-5db9-b404-286fd61bd296.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/22/arizona-sheriff-wildfires-likely-started-by-mexican-drug-traffickers-smugglers


You have produced no vetted source. It is conjecture.

ruveyn



naturalplastic
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27 Jun 2011, 2:38 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
How disappointing....I was hoping to read that McCain was blaming spacemen, not Mexicans.


Thats what I thought too.
Funny - if the OP had written "Illegle Aliens" or just "illegles" you would know what he meant, but calling them "alien invaders" implies that McCain is scapegoating little green men in flying saucers.

Well, they do mutilate cattle. How can we be sure that the saucer jockeys arent starting brush fires as well?

Lol



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27 Jun 2011, 8:58 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
How disappointing....I was hoping to read that McCain was blaming spacemen, not Mexicans.


Well, he may be wrong not to place the blame on space men. I mean, they do have death rays that set things on fire and all. :lol:

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aghogday
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27 Jun 2011, 10:00 pm

Great topic line attention getter. After the previous thread on Alien Messages, I actually thought McCain might have been reading information about the NSA release on the wrongplanet. I bet this topic gets a few looks.

I'm not sure what the value is on McCain releasing information that the fires might have been caused by illegal Aliens is, especially if the evidence is not conclusive. It could incite additional activity like this or reinforce the activity if someone was seeking attention.

The information is not likely going to stop anyone from intentionally setting a fire in the wide open country of Arizona, if they are so inclined, and it could increase the activity.



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08 Jul 2011, 6:53 pm

First of all, neither John McCain nor anyone else has any clue who started these fires. This is just another example of propaganda designed to demonize anyone you want to show in a bad light. It's a trick employed by war-mongering governments to make sure you despise the "enemy", and by right-wing hate-mongering whackos to make you hate ... well, whoever it is they happen to be hating today. Remember the stories about how the Japanese "ate children"? Or how the Gypsies would steal them? This is more of the same.

Maybe illegals started the fires, maybe they didn't. But even if they did, what conclusion are you supposed to draw? That range fires are started by people? Well, duh. I might point out that the 2003 Catalina fires down here that burned far more than the Sierra Vista fire was started by beer-guzzling, gun-totin' rednecks tossing lighted cigarettes out the window of their 10,000 horsepower cowboy Cadillac.

What conclusion should you draw from that?



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08 Jul 2011, 9:42 pm

CaroleTucson wrote:
First of all, neither John McCain nor anyone else has any clue who started these fires. This is just another example of propaganda designed to demonize anyone you want to show in a bad light. It's a trick employed by war-mongering governments to make sure you despise the "enemy", and by right-wing hate-mongering whackos to make you hate ... well, whoever it is they happen to be hating today. Remember the stories about how the Japanese "ate children"? Or how the Gypsies would steal them? This is more of the same.

Maybe illegals started the fires, maybe they didn't. But even if they did, what conclusion are you supposed to draw? That range fires are started by people? Well, duh. I might point out that the 2003 Catalina fires down here that burned far more than the Sierra Vista fire was started by beer-guzzling, gun-totin' rednecks tossing lighted cigarettes out the window of their 10,000 horsepower cowboy Cadillac.

What conclusion should you draw from that?


well the evidence says that it was started by "people" I guess according to McCain's logic, Americans are not people, just illegal aliens are, :roll:


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