The Thatcher files on the Hillsborough disaster

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http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liv ... -29253547/

The UK government has ordered to block releasing the hidden files detailing Margaret Thatcher’s thoughts about the Hillsborough disaster. For 22 years now Liverpool fans like my self and the people of Merseyside have been fighting for justice for the 96.

Is it justice to cover up the full truth, NO ITS NOT!! !

Please take the time to sign the following petition for full disclosure of all government documents relating to 1989 Hillsborough disaster, to help the families of the 96 Liverpool fans that lost there lifes to have closure and peace.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2199

JUSTICE FOR THE 96, YNWA

cheers

what killed all those people?

Other people. They were trampled to death in a mad rush to get into the stadium, allegedly caused by the action of the police who were attempting to seperate the supporters of the two teams (they'd had problems with football violence).

You can't get justice for the 96, because for justice, someone actually has to be guilty, and unless you're going to start punishing all the Liverpool supporters who trampled their fellow fans down on the ground, you won't have justice.

No get your facts right, the Taylor Report found that there were a number of safety issues with the football ground. No South Yorkshire Police have never had legal action taken again them so far for the disaster only they only had psychiatric injury claims made again them and the private prosecutions of two of there former officers David Duckenfield and Bernard Murray.

Magento it sounds like your ill informed about Hillsborough.

edit The inquiry Lord Taylor of Gosforth did on the disaster found that the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control from South Yorkshire Police.

...which wouldn't have been an issue had football hooliganism not needed to be controlled.

Get your facts right, cdfox7; you can't deny people were trampled to death. It sounds like you're ill-informed as to how people actually died at Hillsborough. They were trampled to death, therefore the people directly responsible for their deaths were the people doing to the trampling. If there were safety issues with the football ground, then it is not the police's fault. You might as well prosecute the game organisers for selling more tickets than the stadium could handle.

It was an accident. A tragic, fatal, accident. The sooner Liverpool fans realise this, and stop lugging it around with them, the better.

Done.

Magento it sounds like your ill informed about Hillsborough.

edit The inquiry Lord Taylor of Gosforth did on the disaster found that the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control from South Yorkshire Police.[/quote]

None of us outside of the UK is well informed about this.
Youll have to bring us all up to speed.

I vaguely remember an era in the nineties when we Americans heard about soccer riots in britain. Jay Leno or someone quipped that british soccer audiences are real life versions of the name of the rock band with Natalie Merchant- "Ten thousand Maniacs". So if you're saying that the riots were exacerbated by the stadiums or the police or something or someone other than than the mobs themselves then you have some explaining to do. It might well be. Im not prejudiced against british sports fans. But it would be news to me.

Are you seriously trying to deny that people at Hillsborough were trampled to death? I know what happened - when your brother is an avid Liverpool fan, it's hard not to. There was supposedly a failure of the police when it came to controlling the crowd, people were trampled to death when people tried getting into a full stadium etc. That doesn't negate the fact that, had people not tried pushing forward, no-one would have died. The Liverpool fans are, at least in part, responsible.

I maintain, it was a tragic accident.

The main thing that caused the Hillsborough tragedy was the old school terraces. They had no seating and thus there was no way of regulating the amount of people coming into the stadium. In the case of Hillsborough, they had a metal fence at the front to stop fans from running on to the pitch, which meant fans got crushed instead of being able to run out into the open space.

On a more positive note, well done for the 2-0 win at the Emirates. I'm a Spurs fan and it gives me great pleasure to see Arsenal in such dire straits.

I just heard on the news that they got enough signatures on the petition to trigger a debate in Parliament.

Why did it have to be controlled though? I mean, I can understand it in some shape or form but personally I'd let them pick a time and place - perhaps a deserted stadium, say - let them have their rituals, make sure people sign consent forms and so on - and let them have at each other.

From what I know of the event it was a classic crush accident when a crowd panics or when suddenly something of interest attracted a large number of people. I think that the management of the site by the police was very poor, this combined with the layout of the site lead to the deaths.

To me to say that it was "just an accident" would be to say that a serious road crash which occured when a person drove a car at high speed knowing that the brakes were defective was just a 'accident'. I think that it should have been clear to the police that the way that they were filling the stadium up was going to endanger the public.

The idea of letting football thugs fight legally in a empty stadium is wrong, it reminds me of the "spanner case". The spanner case was all about extreme S&M, the rulings from the spanner case stated that consent is not a valid defence for ABH. This also relates to the fact that bare nunckle boxing is also illegal in the UK (same reasons).

I am not sure what people expect to find in the documents from the Thatcher goverment

Exactly; and that's why they should be able to do it, for the same reasons. They want to nearly die doing something they like, it's not our problem when it happens. People like that generally know what they're doing anyway.



My point was is that these people wouldn't recognise it as ABH - to them it's 'play', or 'being given a f****ing good shoeing'.

As I always understood it, it's entirely legal to have a fist fight with someone with their consent - the fighting itself isn't illegal - but you would be liable to prosecution in the event of serious injury. If bare knuckle boxing is specifically illegal it's probably about stopping people trying to make money from it, I dunno.

In practice - at least in some times and places, and quite rightly so IMO - the police won't do anything (beyond breaking it up) if people fight and there's no significant injury, even if one party is trying to get another arrested because of it. They're pretty sensible about it. It's probably different in leafy Slough, mind. ^^