Spain's futile attempt at bullying British Gibraltar

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05 Aug 2013, 10:09 am

The Spanish Government in Madrid has spent all of last week bullying Gibraltar by leaving massive queues at the Frontier (queues of up to six or seven hours have been reported to cross), threatening investigations of Gibraltarians who own property in Spain, having their police and fishermen invade British waters, and generally making a nuisance of themselves.

Quote:

David Cameron 'seriously concerned' by Gibraltar events

Prime Minister David Cameron is "seriously concerned" about the escalation of tensions at the Spanish-Gibraltarian border.

Spain has said it is considering a range of proposals including a new 50 euro (£43) fee to cross the border with the British territory.

Mr Cameron said none of the measures had been raised with the UK government.

w*kers.

The British Government's response to all this is pathetic.

ChrisP
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05 Aug 2013, 3:24 pm

Personally I'd find Spanish demands for Gibraltar a bit more credible if Spain were not at the same time firmly hanging on to Ceuta and Mililla in Morocco (N.Africa!), not to mention a whole archipeligo (the Canary Isles) off the coast of Western Sahara!

Tequila
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05 Aug 2013, 4:04 pm

ChrisP wrote:

Ah, but they say that that's "different" as they are fully integrated into Spain, whereas Gibraltar is merely a "colony". Absolute balderdash of course.

Can you imagine giving up their spurious claim if Gibraltar were fully integrated into the United Kingdom? No, me neither.

Thelibrarian
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05 Aug 2013, 4:06 pm

Tequila, being a liberal country, at times Britain has been pusillanimous, as have most Western countries. But in the case of Gibraltar, I'm not so sure. I was in the Navy when Argentina tried seizing the Falklands, and the Brits fought bravely to hold these islands.

The question that needs to be asked is what the inhabitants of Gibraltar want: To be Brits of Spaniards.

Tequila
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05 Aug 2013, 4:08 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:

The question that needs to be asked is what the inhabitants of Gibraltar want: To be Brits of Spaniards.

I think the results of the referendums in 1967 and 2002 make the Gibraltarians' wishes pretty clear cut.

Thelibrarian
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05 Aug 2013, 4:09 pm

Tequila wrote:

Thelibrarian wrote:

The question that needs to be asked is what the inhabitants of Gibraltar want: To be Brits of Spaniards.

I think the results of the referendums in 1967 and 2002 make the Gibraltarians' wishes pretty clear cut.

What were those results? I know the referendum results in the case of the Falklands, and I applaud the British government for standing up for the rights of Falklands residents not to be under Argentine rule.

Tequila
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05 Aug 2013, 4:19 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:

10 September 1967:

British sovereignty: 12,138 votes - 99.64%
Spanish sovereignty: 44 votes - 0.36%
Invalid/blank: 55 votes
Total: 12,237 voters - 100%
Registered voters/turnout: 12,672 people - 95.67% of the electorate

7 November 2002:

No to joint sovereignty with Spain: 17,900 votes - 98.48%
Yes to joint sovereignty with Spain: 187 votes - 1.03%
Valid: 18,087 votes - 99.51%
Invalid or blank: 89 votes - 0.49%
Total: 18,176 voters - 100.00%
Voter turnout: 87.9%
Electorate: 20,678 people

Last edited by Tequila on 05 Aug 2013, 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike1
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05 Aug 2013, 4:19 pm

Gibraltar could become its own tiny country like San Marino and Monaco are, or maybe it could become a Spanish special administrative region like how Hong Kong and Macau are Chinese special administrative regions.

Tequila
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05 Aug 2013, 4:20 pm

Mike1 wrote:

They don't want anything of the kind. They don't want to be independent because without the UK being responsible for defence, they fear much stronger persecution.

Only 1% of Gibraltarians want anything to do with Spain.

Thelibrarian
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05 Aug 2013, 4:27 pm

Tequila wrote:

Mike1 wrote:

Tequila, I agree with you. I'm a big believer in self-determination for all peoples. If the people of Gibraltar wish to remain British, especially in such large numbers, then they should remain British.

I would add that if the Brits did relinquish control that things probably wouldn't go well for the citizens. They would be seen as disloyal to whatever government took over.

Tequila
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05 Aug 2013, 4:30 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:

To a fair amount of Gibraltarians, it's less about being "British" as much as about not wanting to be governed by Spain,and keeping their favourable status as a British overseas territory. Integration with the UK is not popular with the people of Gibraltar either.

Thelibrarian
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05 Aug 2013, 4:33 pm

Tequila wrote:

Thelibrarian wrote:

What is their status? To me it sounds a lot like the status of Puerto Ricans. Puerto Ricans have all the benefits of being American citizens without having to pay income taxes, except they can't vote. And, as we well know, if voting could actually change anything, it would've been made illegal a long time ago. So, if Puerto Ricans move to the US, they are automatically citizens. Is it the same with Gibraltar?

Mike1
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05 Aug 2013, 5:13 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:

Spain is used to disloyalty from its citizens. They've got 3 different separatist movements going on in Catalonia, Galicia, and Basque Country. If they acquire Gibraltar, then there will be 4 separatist movements going on.

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05 Aug 2013, 6:58 pm

Mike1 wrote:

Thelibrarian wrote:

True, it's the reason the hypernationalist movement known as fascism never really got off the ground under the Falangists. But that didn't stop Franco from killing hundreds of thousands because of the inter-ethnic problems.

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