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mikassyna
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Mindslave
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12 Nov 2013, 3:47 pm

I've heard of this guy. He seems to think he's smarter than he is. But that's typical of IQ tests; they tend to measure isolated calculating ability and not how well a person can apply knowledge. Computers probably have an IQ OVER 9000!! I think IQ tests should be replaced by EQ tests, or something else like it.



Thelibrarian
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12 Nov 2013, 5:06 pm

Mikassyna, that is interesting, though I'm sure not convinced about his theory, at least from the little I heard him say about it.

There are other kinds of intelligence as evidenced by some of the profoundly stupid pronouncements on politics and science coming from some of our most gifted athletes and artists. But IQ measures something called general intelligence, which is the ability to create, entertain, and manipulate abstractions.

An example of general intelligence would be Descarte, who spent a morning in bed watching a fly buzz around the room, and got up having invented analytical geometry.



pete1061
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12 Nov 2013, 7:26 pm

Yeah, seems like a pretty smart guy.
But how are you going to put intelligence on a linear scale?


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Thelibrarian
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12 Nov 2013, 8:05 pm

pete1061 wrote:
Yeah, seems like a pretty smart guy.
But how are you going to put intelligence on a linear scale?


Actually, there is an entire discipline devoted to measuring qualities such as intelligence: psychometrics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychometrics

What's more, they do a fairly accurate job of it. Not everybody with high intelligence gets into prestigious schools or has a high-powered job, but it is unheard of for those with low intelligence to attain these things--at least on their own merit.

As is the case with being attractive, or having high social intelligence, general intelligence matters.



pete1061
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12 Nov 2013, 11:13 pm

It seems that in individuals at the upper end of the scale have more specialization in one area of intelligence than others. Some may be really good at logical reasoning, but just ok at abstract reasoning. Or some could have excellent spatial reasoning, but have difficulties with verbal information. Many 'intellectuals' have great left brain analytical skills, but are lacking in the more abstract, right brain skills.
It's rare to find someone with a "high IQ" who is well balanced and exceptional in all areas.

The guy in the video actually seems to be quite well balanced in his intelligence.
One would have to get to know him personally to know for sure.


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cyberdad
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13 Nov 2013, 12:30 am

Thelibrarian wrote:
But IQ measures something called general intelligence, which is the ability to create, entertain, and manipulate abstractions.

General intelligence is the ability to think about ideas, analyze situations, and solve problems.
Current IQ tests are not all encompassing as intelligence can be divided into:
•Verbal Linguistic;
•Mathematical Logical; (non-verbal)
•Musical;
•Visual Spatial;
•Bodily Kinesthetic;
•Interpersonal;
•Naturistic; and
•Existential

Thelibrarian wrote:
An example of general intelligence would be Descarte, who spent a morning in bed watching a fly buzz around the room, and got up having invented analytical geometry.

This is an example of thinking about ideas, analyzing a situation and innovating using information to add layers to our understanding and body of knowledge.



Thelibrarian
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13 Nov 2013, 10:08 am

General intelligence is the ability to think about ideas, analyze situations, and solve problems.

I agree. All of these things are abstractions.

Current IQ tests are not all encompassing as intelligence can be divided into:
•Verbal Linguistic;
•Mathematical Logical; (non-verbal)
•Musical;
•Visual Spatial;
•Bodily Kinesthetic;
•Interpersonal;
•Naturistic; and
•Existential

I also agree that IQ is not all-encompassing, nor does it claim to be. It does NOT measure what has come to be known as emotional intelligence. Nor will it measure bodily/kinesthenics or musical ability. Having said this, IQ measures something critically important. Countries with very high average IQ's (with the concept of average being an abstraction) tend to be the most successful, while countries with the lowest IQ's are not.

Again, IQ measures our ability to deal with abstractions, such as yesterday and tomorrow (since these things don't exist); probabilities (which is why the less intelligent and less educated tend to be the biggest lottery players); and mathematics, logic, and philosophy, which are all abstractions by definition.



LoveNotHate
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13 Nov 2013, 7:07 pm

mikassyna wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-788Upky2Y


Anyone who wants to know how smart they are should get a job in research where you work with thousands of people with graduate degrees.

Now if you still think you are smart among all the Phd degree people, all the Phd degree + law degree people, or PhD + medical degree people, and the many people with multiple graduate degrees, then you are some hot stuff.

And if you still think you are smart in comparison to these same people who are decades older than you, and have spend decades on focused research, then you are a genius.



cyberdad
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13 Nov 2013, 11:57 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
mikassyna wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-788Upky2Y


Anyone who wants to know how smart they are should get a job in research where you work with thousands of people with graduate degrees.

Now if you still think you are smart among all the Phd degree people, all the Phd degree + law degree people, or PhD + medical degree people, and the many people with multiple graduate degrees, then you are some hot stuff.

And if you still think you are smart in comparison to these same people who are decades older than you, and have spend decades on focused research, then you are a genius.


A piece of paper with Doctor of Philosophy on it does not necessarily equate to IQ.



cyberdad
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13 Nov 2013, 11:59 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
Having said this, IQ measures something critically important. Countries with very high average IQ's (with the concept of average being an abstraction) tend to be the most successful, while countries with the lowest IQ's are not. .


Correlation only provides an association. It does not prove causality.



pete1061
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14 Nov 2013, 12:45 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
mikassyna wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-788Upky2Y


Anyone who wants to know how smart they are should get a job in research where you work with thousands of people with graduate degrees.

Now if you still think you are smart among all the Phd degree people, all the Phd degree + law degree people, or PhD + medical degree people, and the many people with multiple graduate degrees, then you are some hot stuff.

And if you still think you are smart in comparison to these same people who are decades older than you, and have spend decades on focused research, then you are a genius.


Being good at school doesn't necessarily equate intelligence.
Intellectual "book learning" is only using left side of the brain.


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Thelibrarian
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14 Nov 2013, 10:11 am

cyberdad wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Having said this, IQ measures something critically important. Countries with very high average IQ's (with the concept of average being an abstraction) tend to be the most successful, while countries with the lowest IQ's are not. .


Correlation only provides an association. It does not prove causality.


True, but it is also the case that without correlation there can be no causality. Sometimes it is prudent to be taken in by the obvious. It is called Occam's Razor, and is a foundation of the scientific method.



LoveNotHate
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14 Nov 2013, 11:08 am

pete1061 wrote:

Being good at school doesn't necessarily equate intelligence.
Intellectual "book learning" is only using left side of the brain.


If we are to divide them up ..

#1 I would rank "social intelligence" first. Knowing how to socialize with others is huge for most jobs in society, and making relationships, and finding mating partners.

#2 I would rank "hardwork intelligence" second (i.e., knowing not to be lazy, and knowing that hardwork is necessary to achieve your goals, and then having the intelligence to apply hardwork to problems). These are the entrepreneurs, high-achievers, and goal-seekers.

#3 "Determination intelligence" - nothing stops you, and if it does then you overcome it. Life is going to try to stop you. Life is going to make it hard on you. However, you overcome adversity.

#4 "Book intelligence" is fourth, because you need education to do anything in life, and generally more education leads to more opportunity to do what you want to do, and earn greater pay too. Some people pursue educational degrees/credentials for their entire life. They have the intelligence to know how valuable education is.

#5 Next I would say "IQ" is important, because IQ will likely impact what you can do in life. Though, most stuff in life only requires an average IQ. Anyone with a high IQ might not be able to use it much. Woman may think "emotional intelligence" is more important than "IQ", because it would give a woman more empathy.



starkid
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15 Nov 2013, 5:39 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
Having said this, IQ measures something critically important. Countries with very high average IQ's (with the concept of average being an abstraction) tend to be the most successful, while countries with the lowest IQ's are not.


According to what definition of success? And let me guess: these less successful countries are being tested according to psychometrics developed in the more successful countries? And are the tests then copied and translated, or developed directly in the less successful countries' native language(s)?



Thelibrarian
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15 Nov 2013, 5:49 pm

starkid wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Having said this, IQ measures something critically important. Countries with very high average IQ's (with the concept of average being an abstraction) tend to be the most successful, while countries with the lowest IQ's are not.


According to what definition of success? And let me guess: these less successful countries are being tested according to psychometrics developed in the more successful countries? And are the tests then copied and translated, or developed directly in the less successful countries' native language(s)?


Success? I would say having enough to eat, decent living quarters, a safe environment in which to live, and some freedom for starters.

Yes, psychometrics were developed in more successful countries. Is there something wrong with that? If successful countries wrong and evil and unsuccessful countries always right and virtuous?

And as far as the tests being copied and translated into other languages, you might want to take a look at Raven's Progressive Matrices, which are designed to test intelligence without the use of language at all, or any possibility of cultural biases.

Any more questions?