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OliveOilMom
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23 May 2014, 8:04 pm

A Michigan school sent a notice to parents that for their Field Day "The urge to win will be kept at a minimum". Apparently there will be games and competitions but nobody will win.

I would so take my kid out of that school so fast! That's just wrong!

Link to story - yes it's from Fox


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kraftiekortie
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23 May 2014, 8:09 pm

You better believe it's wrong!

The nature of playing games is attempting to win--with good sportsmanship, of course.

I would never play a game where there is no score. I don't just play softball for the mere enjoyment of it; I play because I want to win. I don't play it too well--but that's another story LOL



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23 May 2014, 8:13 pm

I never won anything playing those games. It didn't make me feel bad about myself. I knew athletics weren't my strong suit, but so what? I had fun trying to win. I cheered for my friends to win. These kids are going to grow up with the mentality of "I showed up! I want my paycheck and a raise!" What's next, doing away with grades? We don't want little Junior to feel bad that he can't do long division now do we?


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kraftiekortie
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23 May 2014, 8:24 pm

Exactimundo! Remember the Fonz? LOL



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23 May 2014, 8:29 pm

I think they took an opportunity to teach good sportsmanship and blew it.
There's nothing wrong with someone winning unless they're obnoxious about it. There's nothing wrong with someone losing unless they're obnoxious about it. They should teach the kids to play games graciously, not to avoid them altogether.



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23 May 2014, 8:47 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I never won anything playing those games. It didn't make me feel bad about myself. I knew athletics weren't my strong suit, but so what? I had fun trying to win. I cheered for my friends to win. These kids are going to grow up with the mentality of "I showed up! I want my paycheck and a raise!" What's next, doing away with grades? We don't want little Junior to feel bad that he can't do long division now do we?


That mentality is showing up in the workplace already, thanks to this no child left behind coddling BS. This stunt in Michigan is not much of a surprise but still aggravating. Last year (or the year before that) there was a case, also in Michigan, where a batch of home made cup-cakes for some little kid's birthday celebration in class were confiscated because they had those little one piece OD green plastic soldiers on each one. They claimed those plastic soldiers promoted violence or some other feelgood BS. :roll:
This is the slippery slope we're all going to be on if enough people don't wake up.


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23 May 2014, 10:32 pm

during my med school orientation, we played noncompetitive games. it was fun and a good beginner for a cooperative learning experience. the school was pass-fail. we all helped each other. it was the best four years of my life. i scored in the top 15% in the country on my national boards.



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24 May 2014, 12:57 am

I would love to have gone to that school! I liked playing some sports but I sucked at them, and only liked them because they were fun. Over competitive people who lived for winning and thought losing was the end of the world made it no fun. I didn't keep track of the score in sports at all. I would have loved to play with someone who was as laid back about it as I was and just wanted to play for fun.
I'm the same with other games as well, I don't care about high scores in Tetris, Solitaire, Mahjong etc and will never understand why someone complains when a video game doesn't save high scores. I just play games like that to have fun and relax. That's no doubt why games like Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon and Rune Factory appeal to me as as well.
My mother and I enjoy playing Ticket To Ride and we don't even look at the scores, we just lay down the tracks (well, trains) and have fun with it. We're both really into that game!
My father over thinks every move he makes in games because he plays to win, so none of us enjoy playing with him.


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24 May 2014, 3:12 am

I always thought games were for having fun. I don't enjoy playing games of competition. I cannot "lose myself" in a game if I have to focus on getting a better score than someone else. Every organized "game" that I see anymore the rules and fundamentals are in the toilet because anyone and everyone will use any little trick or maneuver they can get away with to win, no matter what. Basketball...I don't recognize what people call basketball, or football, or baseball anymore as what I was taught growing up The rules of every "game," even at the school level have had to adapt to satisfying a paying audience or group of spectators. Olympics are pointless because it is all professionals involved in the games. Every "sport" has been bastardized in some way by money. Even my favorite game, pool/billiards has been destroyed by rules adaptations designed to speed up the game to keep the spectators interested. Money destroys everything, even fun.



OliveOilMom
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24 May 2014, 3:15 am

Raptor wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I never won anything playing those games. It didn't make me feel bad about myself. I knew athletics weren't my strong suit, but so what? I had fun trying to win. I cheered for my friends to win. These kids are going to grow up with the mentality of "I showed up! I want my paycheck and a raise!" What's next, doing away with grades? We don't want little Junior to feel bad that he can't do long division now do we?


That mentality is showing up in the workplace already, thanks to this no child left behind coddling BS. This stunt in Michigan is not much of a surprise but still aggravating. Last year (or the year before that) there was a case, also in Michigan, where a batch of home made cup-cakes for some little kid's birthday celebration in class were confiscated because they had those little one piece OD green plastic soldiers on each one. They claimed those plastic soldiers promoted violence or some other feelgood BS. :roll:
This is the slippery slope we're all going to be on if enough people don't wake up.


OK, no child left behind is not at all what it sounds like. I know this because I had some problems with my daughter that were directly related to this. It's about school funding. they gave it a touchy feely name but what it boils down to is this. The funding for schools is directly related to how many kids attend a certain percentage of the school year. Sounds good, right? It sounds like they just want to make sure the schools have enough funding to handle all the kids. Maybe it did, but this is what it turned into.

The act requires valid documentation of why the kids are absent. Still souns good. However, the individual schools are allowed to decide the number of parent notes each child can bring per year and how they are applied. This gives the schools the power to f**k with parents. At our school, you had ten parent notes per year. That's usually more than enough except if my child is absent for three days and I send a note, that counts as three notes. Once you hit ten then everything else has to have a doctors note, a legal note or something like an obituary for a funeral of an immediate family member. If you go over ten then you are taken to court for truancy and the child is put on juvenile probation. Sure, it could prevent truancy but this is what it did in my daughter's case.

She had some stomach problems and the nurse practitioner here couldn't diagnose it so she said it was "schoolitis" and even called the school nurse to tell her nothing was wrong with my daughter. We immediately switched doctors and she had to have test after test after test. (Straight A, honor roll, character award winning, office helper, teachers love her student) We got a blanket note from the new doctor because she would throw up almost every morning and be sick for the whole day sometimes. As it turned out, she had to have her gallbladder out and she was fine after that. However we got dragged into court, she was put on probation, I was told to pay a fine and when she was sick to bring her to the school and let the school nurse decide if she was sick enough to stay home. I did not have a car so I couldn't do that. I sent my husband up to tell the PO that she's not coming to any probation visits because we aren't upsetting her any more than she already is because neither she nor I did anything wrong. I also refused to take her to the school nurse. We did have to pay the freakin fine though.

That's what the NCLB act is. A funding plan and it gives schools the power to step in and take the parents place when deciding if a child is sick enough to stay home or not. The schools have leeway to decide if the kid is truant or if it's real and while they knew she was telling the truth, they still went after he because they were afraid to lose funding. Before this happened, on truancy court days they had maybe 5 kids, now that it's passed you'll see 45 kids up there, with parents who had to take a day off work all sitting up there explaining.

That's what that is and it's wrong. I was thinking of starting a group to protest this called "Parents for Common Sense in Education" but I didn't have time when my daughter was going through it and now my youngest only has one more year, so I'm not dealing with it.

It's something you should look into, as should everybody who is concerned with the government and nanny state trying to step in and take more control of our lives.

Surprising thoughts from a liberal Democrat, huh? :wink:


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24 May 2014, 12:26 pm

Our school was even more anal about absences,they could miss maybe three days,and then it had to be a doctors notes,or they turned you in.This was stupid because if a child has a common cold why take them to the doc for that?So they can spread it?Then if the parents have no insurance,they get a doctors bill they can't afford.I home schooled a few years,was so glad when they were out of that school at last.
I don't ever remember a Field Day from when I was in school,I'm glad we didn't have one,I would have hated it.I would have refused to compete just to aggravate them,and becuse I'm not really competative.I could never see the point in it.
The only sport I ever liked was soccer,I played becuse I liked the game,thought it was cool.
The "no child left behind" caused schools to move kids that had some mild learning problems that may need some extra help being shifted to the special ed class.Then the school could keep its test scores up.There is a King of the Hill episode about this.


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24 May 2014, 12:33 pm

I have never understood the urge to win. To this day I am not actually sure what it is that is being won. However, some people clearly get this and enjoy competitive sports. I can't see why there can't be a coexistence of both, and the kids just be left to gravitate to where they are most comfortable.



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24 May 2014, 1:11 pm

I remembering upset at losing or for sucking at a sport but you know what, I learned to toughen up and learned to actually have fun than trying to win. I only try to win at video games now only because there are prizes at unlocking new characters and courses an levels and advancing to the next level. Gut even in real life there are prizes for raffles and games, I just play and not get upset if I don't win.

I remember field day in school and I do not remember kids not being allowed to win and all. There were no prizes. But I do remember my special school and classes doing field events and everyone got a ribbon for each place they got in so I don't think this is anything new. The media is just now reporting it so it makes it seem new. But all the ribbon thing did for me was make me feel entitled to getting something for even playing because being put in mainstream was the real world and not everyone was a winner like we all were in special ed. It was a good thing my parents got me out of that program and put me in mainstream. Oh yes even as a kid, everyone got a trophy after soccer season would end or softball or baseball or t ball but when we moved out to Montana, no one did that because we couldn't afford it. We would play our final games and then it would be all over, there was no party at the end and trophies being handed out. I sure learned something new and it was like being in a different culture. Life in small towns are different than living in a city. But I do remember being in high school and after track season, our coaches were handing out rewards and I wasn't even expecting to get one because I sucked in it and surprisingly I did get a reward and it was for trying and I was shocked and so were some other kids on the team. She said it was for me trying hard. I figured this happened because I was "special." Just brought back memories from my early childhood when I was in special ed. before I was even put with normal kids.

BTW doesn't everyone get raises and paychecks? You go to work, do your job, you get paid. You keep working and you get a raise after a while.


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24 May 2014, 3:48 pm

I really don't see how it is that big of a deal--either way.


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24 May 2014, 4:10 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Raptor wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I never won anything playing those games. It didn't make me feel bad about myself. I knew athletics weren't my strong suit, but so what? I had fun trying to win. I cheered for my friends to win. These kids are going to grow up with the mentality of "I showed up! I want my paycheck and a raise!" What's next, doing away with grades? We don't want little Junior to feel bad that he can't do long division now do we?


That mentality is showing up in the workplace already, thanks to this no child left behind coddling BS. This stunt in Michigan is not much of a surprise but still aggravating. Last year (or the year before that) there was a case, also in Michigan, where a batch of home made cup-cakes for some little kid's birthday celebration in class were confiscated because they had those little one piece OD green plastic soldiers on each one. They claimed those plastic soldiers promoted violence or some other feelgood BS. :roll:
This is the slippery slope we're all going to be on if enough people don't wake up.


OK, no child left behind is not at all what it sounds like. I know this because I had some problems with my daughter that were directly related to this. It's about school funding. they gave it a touchy feely name but what it boils down to is this. The funding for schools is directly related to how many kids attend a certain percentage of the school year. Sounds good, right? It sounds like they just want to make sure the schools have enough funding to handle all the kids. Maybe it did, but this is what it turned into.

The act requires valid documentation of why the kids are absent. Still souns good. However, the individual schools are allowed to decide the number of parent notes each child can bring per year and how they are applied. This gives the schools the power to f**k with parents. At our school, you had ten parent notes per year. That's usually more than enough except if my child is absent for three days and I send a note, that counts as three notes. Once you hit ten then everything else has to have a doctors note, a legal note or something like an obituary for a funeral of an immediate family member. If you go over ten then you are taken to court for truancy and the child is put on juvenile probation. Sure, it could prevent truancy but this is what it did in my daughter's case.

She had some stomach problems and the nurse practitioner here couldn't diagnose it so she said it was "schoolitis" and even called the school nurse to tell her nothing was wrong with my daughter. We immediately switched doctors and she had to have test after test after test. (Straight A, honor roll, character award winning, office helper, teachers love her student) We got a blanket note from the new doctor because she would throw up almost every morning and be sick for the whole day sometimes. As it turned out, she had to have her gallbladder out and she was fine after that. However we got dragged into court, she was put on probation, I was told to pay a fine and when she was sick to bring her to the school and let the school nurse decide if she was sick enough to stay home. I did not have a car so I couldn't do that. I sent my husband up to tell the PO that she's not coming to any probation visits because we aren't upsetting her any more than she already is because neither she nor I did anything wrong. I also refused to take her to the school nurse. We did have to pay the freakin fine though.

That's what the NCLB act is. A funding plan and it gives schools the power to step in and take the parents place when deciding if a child is sick enough to stay home or not. The schools have leeway to decide if the kid is truant or if it's real and while they knew she was telling the truth, they still went after he because they were afraid to lose funding. Before this happened, on truancy court days they had maybe 5 kids, now that it's passed you'll see 45 kids up there, with parents who had to take a day off work all sitting up there explaining.

That's what that is and it's wrong. I was thinking of starting a group to protest this called "Parents for Common Sense in Education" but I didn't have time when my daughter was going through it and now my youngest only has one more year, so I'm not dealing with it.

It's something you should look into, as should everybody who is concerned with the government and nanny state trying to step in and take more control of our lives.

Surprising thoughts from a liberal Democrat, huh? :wink:


By no child left behind I meant the protectionist mentality in general, not so much the law with the same name. The NCLB law is BS, too. A good rule of thumb should be that anything the government wants to do for the children may look beneficial or at least innocuous on the face of it but chances are it will be at least equally as detrimental as beneficial.

I wasn't aware that you're a liberal democrat. Maybe you should start being obnoxious about it so I'll remember in the future. :D


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24 May 2014, 4:23 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
I have never understood the urge to win. To this day I am not actually sure what it is that is being won. However, some people clearly get this and enjoy competitive sports. I can't see why there can't be a coexistence of both, and the kids just be left to gravitate to where they are most comfortable.


This line from the letter is what caught my eye:
"since we believe that all our students are winners, the need for athletic ability and the competitive 'urge to win' will be kept to a minimum."

To me it implies that they're pretty much going to muzzle the kids with threats of disciplinary action if they display the typical urge to win during field day. By that I mean cheering on team members/other competitors, booing opponents, catcalls, teamsmanship, getting all worked up and loud, etc...


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