Bernie Sanders: Blame Bush, Not Obama Over ISIS

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AnonymousAnonymous
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12 Oct 2014, 4:26 pm

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/bern ... ated-isis/

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Dillogic
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12 Oct 2014, 4:33 pm

I'm pretty sure you have to go back to Muhammad's death to start laying blame at the Sunni-Shia conflict, and then everyone from then on that's been perpetuating it.

Jacoby
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12 Oct 2014, 4:34 pm

Bush and Obama are both responsible, invading Iraq and waging a covert proxy war in Syria.

AspieUtah
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12 Oct 2014, 5:23 pm

U.S. presidents Carter and Reagan recruited, armed and funded the mujahideen in Afghanistan through the CIA after the Soviet Union invaded that nation in 1979. As the largest, and best equipped and funded, Afghan rebel group, the mujahideen morphed into the Taliban government of Afghanistan after the Soviet Union abandoned its invasion. The Taliban spawned al Qaeda as an off-shoot of its government in the 1980s. Al Qaeda spawned al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia (AQSA), al-Qaeda in Yemen (AQIY) and, finally, al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) in 2012 and 2013. Al Qaeda also spawned the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) which is now known as Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) or simply the Islamic State (IS). IS has along history with al Qaeda and morphed its name(s) as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (1999?2004) to Al-Qaeda in Iraq (2004?2006) to Mujahideen Shura Council (2006) and Islamic State of Iraq (2006?2013). U.S. President Obama armed and financed IS through the U.S. Department of State and the CIA.

To make it simple to understand: "We've always been at war with Eastasia[,]" Winston. From Carter to Reagan to Bush to Clinton to Bush to Obama, the same actors have used the "enemies" to stage their fake wars. They are all guilty.

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12 Oct 2014, 7:36 pm

It was Bush who opened this immediate Pandora's Box with his invasion of Iraq that destabilized the whole region. As bad a Saddam Hussein was, at least he could keep law and order, and like it or not, he was the west's shield against the religious lunatics filling the ranks of Al Qaeda and ISIS. Now, all bush's legacy has left us is a corrupt, impotent, ineffective government in Iraq that will never be able to hold off ISIS on their own.

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progaspie
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12 Oct 2014, 9:15 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

During two terms of office Reagan achieved what none of his precedents were able to do in the previous 70 years, namely bring down communism in the Soviet Union. He also initiated a research program into a defence system capable of destroying incoming nuclear missiles reaching mainland US. I would have thought it to be a somewhat smaller challenge since Reagan, for US presidents to handle a small group of disorganized terrorists from causing mayhem in world. Apparently not.

bicentennialman
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12 Oct 2014, 10:12 pm

Clearly the one to blame for all of this is George Washington.

luanqibazao
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12 Oct 2014, 10:14 pm

When the next president is in office, can we start blaming his problems on Obama? Or will they still be Bush's fault?

justkillingtime
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12 Oct 2014, 10:16 pm

luanqibazao wrote:

When the next president is in office, can we start blaming his problems on Obama? Or will they still be Bush's fault?

Still Bush's fault.

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khaoz
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13 Oct 2014, 12:33 am

progaspie wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

Reagan did not "bring down communism" in the Soviet Union. Time and the inevitable change that accompanies time tempered Communism in the Soviet Union, but Communism in the Soviet Union is far from dead. It is merely evolving. Reagan was not the God of the world that people make him out to be, no matter how hard said people wish it to be so. The "great communicator" used note cards in his speeches. Obama uses a teleprompter. No difference.

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13 Oct 2014, 1:28 am

Seems people forgot about good O'l Ronnie Reagan...

The Reagan administration propped up Saddam Hussein and supported his regime during which time he dropped chemical weapons on the Kurds. Saddam spilled over million lives fighting Iran (who were holding US hostages at the time). In return the US armed the Iraqis with whatever weapons they wanted. Plenty of the weapons ISIS (and for that matter the Taliban) now use originated from the USA.

The support the US (via the CIA and Ollie North) gave Saddam triggered Saddam's greed for expanding his borders, If I remember correctly a US female diplomat misunderstood and gave verbal assurance to Saddam that if he attacked Kuwait then the US would not intervene. The rest as they say is history.

Addendum: the same Kurds who suffered under Saddam and were declared a terrorist organisation by the US (the PKK separatists) are now being funded and supported by the US!! ! Here's how the Kurds are using American weapons
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 42637.html

My understanding is that female suicide bombers are supposed to be one of the reasons this group were outlawed some years ago. My guess is that the Kurds will wait for this conflict to finish then turn their suicide bombers with their American made explosives against Turkey whom they have long standing grievances. This is going to get messier and messier.

progaspie
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13 Oct 2014, 1:44 am

cyberdad wrote:

Ask your average Iraq citizen who they prefer out of Saddam Hussein or ISIS and I have a fair idea who they will say and it won't be the latter. And if you think the Kurds are in any way as bad as ISIS you are totally misreading the situation. ISIS won't stop until the world is declared Islamic (that is, their version of Islam in which rape, murder and mutilation is the order of the day), or they are physically eliminated.

PS. Nice distortion of history. The weapons you refer to in Reagan's time were diverted to the Contras in South America in their fight against a corrupt and communist dictatorship. Good you mention Iran who released their hostages from the American embassy in Tehran after a two year deadlock under the presidency of Jimmy Carter, again just after Ronald Reagan became president.

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13 Oct 2014, 2:41 am

progaspie wrote:

I don;t dispute this. However I'm just recounting how the conflict started. Saddam Hussein was in serious risk of being overthrown by the Iranians. Had that happened I suspect hundreds of thousands of lives might have been saved.

progaspie wrote:

PS. Nice distortion of history. The weapons you refer to in Reagan's time were diverted to the Contras in South America in their fight against a corrupt and communist dictatorship. Good you mention Iran who released their hostages from the American embassy in Tehran after a two year deadlock under the presidency of Jimmy Carter, again just after Ronald Reagan became president.

LOL! feel free to research the subject yourself; but here's a Statement made under oath by former NSC official Howard Teicher to the U.S. District Court, Southern District of Florida
The United States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat... The CIA, including both CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director Gates, knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC files show or tend to show that the CIA knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, munitions and vehicles to Iraq

progaspie
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13 Oct 2014, 3:25 am

cyberdad wrote:

progaspie wrote:

You need to keep in mind that at the time you mention, Iraq was in a life and death struggle against Iran. If your citizens at your embassy in Tehran had been viliolated against international law by Iranian students in cohorts with the Iranian government, wouldn't it be reasonable to you to support the country at war with Iran, which happened to be Iraq. It wasn't as if Saddam Hussain was getting all his weapons from the U.S. Saddam was buying weapons from the open market and using oil revenues to buy weapons. Those countries included France, Britain and Germany as well as the U.S. The nerve gas that Saddam dropped on the Kurds was obtained from Germany, not the US. But I guess it's easier to blame everything on Reagan, isn't it?

cyberdad
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13 Oct 2014, 4:44 am

progaspie wrote:

The Americans thinking was more like Mao Tse Tung's philosophy, "An enemy of my enemy is my friend"

progaspie wrote:

It wasn't as if Saddam Hussain was getting all his weapons from the U.S. Saddam was buying weapons from the open market and using oil revenues to buy weapons. Those countries included France, Britain and Germany as well as the U.S. The nerve gas that Saddam dropped on the Kurds was obtained from Germany, not the US. But I guess it's easier to blame everything on Reagan, isn't it?

Actually most of the chemicals used for creating Saddam's mustard gas and nerve gas was purchased from Singapore and the Netherlands and the USA. Among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from American companies such as Alcolac International and Phillips was thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture mustard gas, according to leaked portions of Iraq's "full, final and complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs. The provision of chemical precursors from United States companies to Iraq was enabled by a Ronald Reagan Administration

khaoz
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13 Oct 2014, 4:49 am

cyberdad wrote:

Not only did the Reagan administration support Hussein, and alternately whatever force had power in Iran at various times, the Reagan administration supplied that region with the chemical weapons that were used on the Kurds, and whoever else spoke out against Hussein. The same chemical weapons, a.k.a "weapons of mass destruction" that were talked about as pretense and excuse by the Bush administration to invade Iraq.

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