What makes a woman?

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Actually I've had 34 years to think about these issues and the response to them. I also have a minor in gender studies, so I've done a good amount of research on them as well. If you're worried about discrimination specifically which is what all the points you mention allude to, well hate to tell you this but LGBT people face a veritable s**t ton more discrimination than the female sex faces. When was the last time you heard of a female in a western country being strung up to a fence and literally crucified merely for being female?

I actually believe in female rights and that there needs to be more done to equalize the disparity between the sexes and how they're treated-- but I'm not going to toss a whole subgroup under the bus to do so, a subgroup that has it far worse than the average western female.

Impressive CV!

Well the argument I was given was that I was just out of hand dismissing the argument without thinking about it, so yeah my tiny CV was necessary to counter that claim. I also suggest if you're not going to argue the issue and just make trolling comments you should find another audience because I'm done talking to you.

You're basically committing 2 fallacies here: 1.) You're saying that because of your credentials what you say must be true and 2.) You are saying that a case should be ignored because there are worse cases. This was a really horrible comeback.

As for rape, it's obvious what's wrong with your advice of, "Just carry a gun, mace, or some other weapon": Most cases of rape are NOT by strangers.

Sad that you are so supposedly experienced that you had to pump yourself up and yet you miss this basic fact.

Actually I wasn't pumping myself up, you accused me of not thinking about the issues: the credentials were merely to show you I have thought about it, a lot actually. I really don't like mentioning credentials, but if you're going to accuse me of not knowing the issue then I will certainly bring them into the fold. You gave me an ethos based attack, I gave you an ethos based reply.

Second, I'm not saying gender equality isn't an issue, I'm saying it can't be solved if you don't include all the facts: gender is a spectrum, just like autism is. Physical sex is one thing, gender is a completely different thing since it includes cultural bias and learned behavior. And even then, physical sex isn't so clear cut: there are males with feminine features and females with masculine features, and again, there are hermaphrodites. You can ignore those things all you want, but that doesn't make them cease to exist.

As for rape: I'm a male that has been raped by a female and it wasn't someone I knew so my experience with rape is completely different than what yours is, but it's no less valid. That being said, if we're talking rape specifically: if you're a male and you've been raped society wants nothing to do with you, a least there are support systems for women. I was drugged and taken advantage of, so you're right a gun, mace, etc, wouldn't have stopped it, but in a lot of cases they can be a deterrent, especially with your initial claim that rape is based on physical dimorphism between the sexes (which I also disagree with based on personal experience). You know what stops a physically stronger person from abusing a physically smaller person? A weapon.

I don't think either one of us is going to back off from our positions, and at this point the conversation can easily get distracted from the issues into the realm of personal attacks. I don't want that, I respect you and your viewpoint even if I don't agree with it, so I'm going to leave it there. I'll read a response if you want to provide one though.

Aristophanes,

What don't you agree with? Be specific.

The dichotomy that's there's merely a male and female genders with no reference to those that fit in-between those two ends of the spectrum.

Let me rephrase what this thread is about: It's about trans people stomping over women, with little to no consideration for them. It's not about intersex people, it's not about rape of men, it's not about any of that. Lots of trans activists like to bring up intersex people (and note, intersex people do NOT like to be called "hermaphrodites") because they can use that to say "Well, you see, sex doesn't really matter! So that trans person who was born unambiguously male and raised as a man can just say he's a woman whenever he feels like it!" Because of that, I work to stop such derailments. Note, too, that lots of intersex people don't like it when trans activists do this, either.

It's not about rape of men, either. That is a legitimate issue, but it is not germane to this thread.

So back to the main point: Bruce Jenner has come in claiming to be a woman after 65 years of living as a quite successful man. Lots of feminists have issues with the way Jenner did this. This is for multiple reasons: Experiences that are common to many females, particularly females who are not particularly privileged, that are traumatic and define the female experience. A highly privileged man coming in and claiming to be one of them is not necessarily going to be a received well.

Point taken. I understand the concern, but to be honest I think the fact that's it's Jenner and the media circus he brings with him is the issue here, not necessarily transgender people. Your average person that's had sexual reassignment doesn't have near the privilege Jenner has-- as for discrimination those people get much more than your average woman does. So why do they do it? It provides absolutely no benefits to them inside of society, it actually lowers their status below that of a female, the only logical reason I can think of to get sex reassignment is because you truly believe you're the opposite sex. If that's what someone truly wants/needs to function properly I have no problem with it.

I am in agreement that gender dysphoria is a serious disorder and that in some cases hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgeries are medically necessary and should be covered by insurance.

I also agree that this is largely about Jenner and the privileged embodied by her. I wonder, Would Jenner ever contemplate donating to, say, the Jim Collins Foundation? It's a charity dedicated to funding gender reassignment surgeries for trans people but is so strapped for cash that they can really only award 2 or 3 people a year, and has been stuck at that level in the 5 or 6 or so years it's been in existence.

That's the problem with Jenner being the one that's trying to Michael Sam this issue-- you don't know whether it's legit or just a ploy for a reality television show. I'm of the opinion if he wanted to be female he had a whole lifetime to make that choice, the timing seems dubious. I'm pretty sure his transformation is solely about himself, that's not to say he's not transgender in his mind, but the entire process is more about him than anything else, so good luck on him donating to charity or making any headway for transgender people. As for pronouns I'm still using he, and not her, or ze, solely based on the fact that I don't know what his true intentions are.

I have never seen the point of reality TV.

Lol, for your average person none, for networks the point is that they can fill time slots without having to spend a ton of money on writing scripts, paying for actors, shooting scenes, etc. It's pure cheap filler-- kind of like Jenner and this issue.

XY = Man
XX = Woman

I really don't understand why this needs to be debated. It's so simple.

Until someone with Klinefelter syndrome comes along.