Sex crimes in Europe by North African and Arab men

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"I'm okay with whoever wants to live as we do in America embracing western values and integrating into our culture, I don't want hostile separatists."

And I and most people I know would agree.

However the problem with your statement is the word "whoever." It isn't just the people coming into this country, if they are Muslim, that we're concerned about. As we've seen many of the progeny of Muslim people can (and do) become radicalized and decide to kill people or perhaps go overseas so they can chop heads. This is happening because of their adherence to Islam. According to Islam this is correct belief and action.

This has not changed in far more than 1000 years. Perhaps another 1000 to 2000 years might show some changes, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

While there is a germ of truth in this, I think it is buried in extremely unhelpful oversimplification.

Islam has changed in the last 1,000 years in significant ways.

Wahabism is less than 200 years old and most of it's modern adherents follow a form invented as a revival movement during the cold war. Jihadist Salafism primarily originates in the 1990s.

It's estimated that 0.5% or fewer than 10 million of the world's 1.9 billion muslims support some form of jihadist Salafism.

Radicalization seems to flow from Jihadist propaganda on the internet rather than traditional media or sermons at mosques (with notable exceptions like Finsbury Park under Abu Hamza.) Instead of taking the quixotic or counter-productive task of vetting or going to war with all the 1.9 billion muslims on earth, a prudent course would be to focus the attention of security forces (and ultimately armed drones) on those who create and seek out radicalizing messages online.

Everyone who was in Al Muhajiroun before it was banned or any of its successor organizations, for example, should be under intense and continual surveillance as should all those who seek to be their students.

Such an approach, combined with more traditional human intelligence technique is going to yield better results than casting aspersions on and alienating every single person who happens to have been born in an islamic country or family.

This strain of Islam is a political ideology as much as a religion, these fundamentalists who want to return 7th century are akin to Nazi supremacists that hide behind "religious freedom". These fundamentalists are the enemies of western civilization and should never be allowed in the United States or anywhere in the west. If Islam can't change as Judaism and Christianity have then Islam should end, I don't see value in antiquated superstitions.

There are plenty of recidivist loons in Judaism and Christianity. What makes Islam special in the antiquated superstition sweepstakes?

More to the point, how exactly would you propose to "end" Islam?

I'm not particularly a fan of Nietzsche but your sentiment brings a famous quote to my mind:

The problem with Islam is that it's both a political ideology and religion.

They never got to point of separation of Church and State and Magna Carta. And, it doesn't look like "they" will anytime soon.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with those Muslims that hold those ideals "immigrating" after reasonable screening -- seems like it's too late for Germany and much of Western Europe now, though, where an anarchic form of immigration has already taken place with hundreds of thousands to millions crossing.

Nobody remembers the non Muslim alt rock and nu-metal fans who behaved similarly at Woodstock '99?

alchohol, drugs, groupthink, entitlement is what this was all about.

Behaved similarly only by a huge stretch of the imagination.

I think this is denial of a real problem and it's no more helpful than the racism, xenophobia and uncritical anti-Islam sentiment that others express.

You can't make it better by denying there is a problem, any more than you can make it better by going after people who did not cause the problem.

Magna carta? What, you want more power for barons?

The magna carta did not secure personal liberty, however mythologized it has been or however often it has been used as propaganda in support of other movements that actually did secure liberty. Most of Europe, not least England where the Head of State and Head of the national religion are one, has NO separation of church and state.

Angela Merkel is a Christian Democrat and leads the CDU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... ic_parties

What they lack is a deep commitment to the ideas of the rule of law and the rights of man. They argue that these ideas are incompatible with Islam. To the extent that they are convincing, they are correct. As long as there are muslims who don't agree, and it seems the majority do not agree, then they are wrong.

How was it different? At the 1999 Woodstock festival there was widespead groping, plenty of sexual assaults and two reported gang rapes and arson. Of course Jahidism is real and Obama is an idiot for refusing to use the term or Islamic terrorism but where is the evidence that religion was the factor or even a factor in what happened in Colonge?

Woodstock had a mix of males and females who were there to listen to legendary music...people remember Woodstock with fondness and nostalgia...

Imagine if groups of drunken young American men groped Arab girls at Dubai's new years eve party! there would be public executions organised the next morning...

I am talking about Woodstock '99 not the original in 1969, or even the fairly successful in spite of itself Woodstock '94. You are an example of what I am talking about, Woodstock '99 was a bad memory that people forget. I quess I am different, when I read about happened in Germany, Woodstock '99 was the first thing I thought of.

re Woodstock 99
Sandy Lattimore, emergency services director of the Rome office of the American Red Cross, said she did have some suggestions for female moshers. "One thing I think these girls should do, they ought to look at the way they dress when they go to these things," she said. Lattimore was not suggesting that women who wear a certain type of clothing are somehow inviting sexual assault. Instead, she was offering practical advice. "The girls that wear the cute little dresses should know that those provide easy access."

re: Cologne - the women molested were fully dressed and not mosh diving in bikinis into a group of horny males....

EDIT: Just trying to make things more legible.

They were not wearing bikinis in Germany because it was winter. And there has been mosh pits since at least the early 1990's and skimpy clothes and nudity at the first Woodstock and drugs and alchohol at most concerts but mass un consensual sexual attacks does not happen at most of these events. Difference, sense of entitlement and groupthink.

No Woodstock 1999 was not exactly Colonge, no two events are exactly alike but why why why why does EVERYBODY want to deny that there are more similarities then differences between these two events?There has been page after page of comments discussing if the religion of the criminals and where they came from had anything to do with their sense of entitlement without any evidence there is these links.


And both events intended or not the victims were blamed. It is not only men, women blame women for bieng victims also

Would you like a video of this type of attack? They did it to foreign reporters in Egypt during their revolution too, I could show you the difference. This is not normal, at least not for westerners. Some isolated incident at a concert that got out of hand almost 20 years ago doesn't show anything; there were a 1000+ people violently attacking, robbing, and sexually assaulting people in Cologne on New Years Eve in a coordinated manner. The attackers were people that did not speak German or English, the ones that have been caught have been mostly Syrian refugees. These are just the facts.

Woodstock 99 doesn't seem at all like the same kind of attack.

Woodstock 99 did not occur in multiple cities at the same time. The perpetrators in the petty arson and sexual assaults at woodstock did not have the common characteristic that was notable in the attacks. There was a degree of coordination and direction in the Cologne attacks that was not a feature of the out-of-control crowd at woodstock 99.

In Cologne, according to the New York times, of the 19 named suspects, 10 were asylum seekers and the other 9 were illegal immigrants. Of an additional 32 unnamed suspects, 22 were identified as asylum seekers. Three were Germans and one was an American (maybe a Limp Bizkit fan with a sense of entitlement?)

A prevailing sense of entitlement in Germany cannot be the cause of this behavior as these people are for the most part recent arrivals in Germany. A problem in the culture the grew up in is more likely the cause. I don't think it's "a sense of entitlement."

There is a long, ugly history of rape and sexual violence in the struggles for regional hegemony between Islam (mostly in the form the Ottomans) and Europe. There is a long, ugly, global history in our species of male sexual violence against women. One of these historical trends is of sexual violence used to express cultural dominance over a victimized population. The other is the much larger problem of males expressing dominance over females that seems to be part of our biological inheritance as Hominidae.