Non-transgender Men Being Allowed In Women's Bathroom!

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animalcrackers
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25 May 2016, 9:34 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

Quote:

Also, to be clear, does your argument about protecting other women/girls from seeing male genitals, and being seen nude/semi-nude by people with male genitals even when those people are also women/girls, mean that you would be fine with transwomen who had undergone vaginoplasty using the women's locker rooms and bathrooms? If not, why not?

Personally, I would be fine with that for two reasons. One, it offers a protection from straight male perverts who might pretend to be trans. Two, it means that even if the trans person strips naked, no one will be exposed to any genitalia they aren't comfortable with or expecting to see. There is still the issue of people being seen naked by someone they might regard as opposite gender, but to me if someone is willing to undergo that type of surgery they are very committedly trans, and they should be treated wholly as their preferred gender. Other people might not agree with me, though, which brings me back to two things: choice and information. Everyone should have the right to be informed in advance about what's allowed in a bathroom/locker room, and everyone should have the option to use or not use that facility based on that information without penalty.

I don't agree that a person should need to have surgery first, but I respect your perspective. (Well, for the most part...requiring surgery for recognition of the person's gender identity as their "on the whole" gender is something I have a problem with and it brings up further issues -- like what if the person can't afford it, or is medically unable to have it..... but your logic makes sense within your paradigm and I have respect for perspectives that are not based in prejudice).

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Last edited by animalcrackers on 25 May 2016, 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

animalcrackers
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25 May 2016, 9:44 pm

nurseangela wrote:

And what about everyone else's rights? You think that Trans people are so important that the majority of the population should have to give up their rights? Shouldn't the majority rule?

With human rights? (i.e. the right to not be discriminated against based on things like sex/gender, disability, etc.) No, there is no majority rule.

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wowiexist
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25 May 2016, 10:10 pm

When it comes to all LGBT rights, not just transgender, I always hear conservatives saying that allowing gay marriage violates the rights of straight people and things like that. So basically what they are saying is that they have a right to discriminate against people. Personally I don't think people should have a right to discriminate against anyone. Discrimination should not be a right.

Kraichgauer
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25 May 2016, 10:39 pm

seaweed wrote:

just a personal opinion,
as long as the person is respectful and just trying to do their business, i don't give a damn what their sex, gender, or sexual orientation is as long as they're not intrusive. all i'm concerned with when i use the bathroom is relieving my body of waste, using the sinks to clean, and using the mirrors to see myself. its really simple. i don't need to be protected from people who don't mean me any harm. i'm way more concerned about people who think its acceptable to dictate which, if any, bathroom other people are allowed to use. my friend who is a trans woman is afraid to use both the men's and women's public bathrooms because, in the most reduced explanation, in the men's she's a "sissy" and in the women's she is an "invader". these people are not criminals, and their rights don't deserve to be pushed aside because of potential criminal behaviors. criminals are criminals no matter which f*****g sign a bathroom has.

My friend's fiance, who is a trans woman, has said the whole anti-trans bathroom BS is making her feel like a hunted animal.

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25 May 2016, 10:43 pm

animalcrackers wrote:

nurseangela wrote:

And what about everyone else's rights? You think that Trans people are so important that the majority of the population should have to give up their rights? Shouldn't the majority rule?

With human rights? (i.e. the right to not be discriminated against based on things like sex/gender, disability, etc.) No, there is no majority rule.

Majority rule counts only for certain matters, such as a majority vote. But when it comes to civil rights, I agree, a minority can't just be left out in the cold, or worse. If majority rule was always the case, we'd still have Jim Crow, and "Irish need not apply" signs.

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26 May 2016, 8:22 am

wowiexist wrote:

The segregationists said the same thing. Their rights were being violated by being forced to serve black people in their businesses, and to live near them, to share bathrooms with them.

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26 May 2016, 8:24 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Nobody's lying. People are just stating their feelings.

I feel it's absurd for Target to allow men into female bathrooms.

Wait, what? They don't.

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26 May 2016, 8:25 am

nurseangela wrote:

What's ridiculous is this crap getting to this point. What's even more ridiculous is the little mind games of letting people "think" they are a certain way when they are clearly not that way physically like men saying they "feel like a woman" . Well I think those same men can change their way of thinking back to thinking they are men again for the two lousy f'n minutes that it takes to piss in the men's bathroom!

You're in denial that transgendered people exist. It's probably because you don't know any.

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26 May 2016, 12:32 pm

Quote:

Wait, what? They don't.

Yes, they do. You're assuming that no men would lie (they wouldn't even have to lie, really, because no one will ask them) to get into a windowless room with disrobed women. That's unrealistically optimistic.

wowiexist
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26 May 2016, 7:58 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

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Wait, what? They don't.

Is it common for women to get naked in public restrooms? If this policy really caused an increased risk then everyone would be against this, but there is no proof that it does. There is so little proof that people have created fake articles claiming that it does.

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26 May 2016, 8:32 pm

wowiexist wrote:

YippySkippy wrote:

Quote:

Wait, what? They don't.

I think that was a reference to dressing rooms, or locker rooms.

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26 May 2016, 8:44 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

Quote:

Wait, what? They don't.

Even if the subject of a rule lies, it doesn't change the rule.

DannyHurricane
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30 May 2016, 5:13 am

A creepy person is a creepy person regardless of their gender and regardless of what bathroom they were in. This kind of article just leads itself to 'transphobia' and hatred. I'm not the most 'PC' person by any means but I have a lot of interest in this for personal reasons. Most people imagine transgender people to be the stereotypical 'middle aged man in a dress'. I'm a transgender boy, and at 18 I look more like a 14 year old. I wouldn't feel comfortable using the female bathroom even though that is my biological sex as I'm worried I might get in trouble, yet I'm also afraid of using the male bathroom in case anyone realises I'm not biologically male. I usually just use the disabled bathroom and hope no one sees me, but often I can't find it or it's locked (I never understand that) so I'm left having to choose between 2 options which aren't particularly safe for me. I say to solve this issue just adapt disabled toilets- therefore it doesn't affect the regular men and women's bathrooms and they won't have to even 'see' transgender people using their facilities. Articles like this just lend themselves to misunderstanding and its already vulnerable people that suffer the consequences.

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