Tired of Trump, Clinton and the presidental ordeal

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TomS
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08 Jun 2016, 8:47 am

And it still has months to go. Also tired of how everything is politicized, especially online. The story can be about pancakes and within minutes someone is blaming Repubs or Dems or the Government for something.

I mourn the lack of civil discourse, the idealogical cleansing of moderates.

A sentence from a speech long ago haunts my hopes for a better future: 'A house divided against itself cannot stand.'

xenocity
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08 Jun 2016, 10:03 am

The current situation is reflective of how the American voters feel.
The U.S. and the world go through regular periods of polarity.

This not exclusive to the U.S.

Europe is just as polarized, as is Turkey, the Middle East, South America, Canada, Mexico, Asia, Japan etc...

France is in the mist of a national strike over labor reforms sought by the current government.
UK is polarized far worse than the U.S., leading to an EU referendum on the 23rd.
Spain is headed to the polls this month in a second attempt is year to elect a functioning government... No one got the majority last time.
Turkey has swung full on conservative to the point of nearly making Erdagon president for life.
The U.S. is stuck with one side who wants to shackle the country to the bible and further deregulate everything, while the other side wants to fund infrastructure projects, expand rights, increase regulation, and reverse the Bush II tax cuts.

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Kraichgauer
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08 Jun 2016, 10:42 am

Maybe we should switch to a campaign season that is just a few weeks long, which is the norm in most countries, rather than endless campaigns filling the news media.

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TomS
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08 Jun 2016, 10:46 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Maybe we should switch to a campaign season that is just a few weeks long, which is the norm in most countries, rather than endless campaigns filling the news media.

I like that idea.

lostonearth35
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08 Jun 2016, 10:48 am

Trump trump trump trump trump, trumpity trump trump TRUMP. ARRRRGH!
:wall:

AspieUtah
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08 Jun 2016, 11:01 am

TomS wrote:

...A sentence from a speech long ago haunts my hopes for a better future: 'A house divided against itself cannot stand.'

Indeed. Political parties have intentionally become more like professional sports. It makes me laugh to watch the "fans" acting like hooligans as if they actually hold any stake in the outcome of the footer match.

Unfortunately, the constitutional right to Free Speech would prohibit any restriction on the ability of candidates for public office (and, in fact, any individual) speaking publicly about themselves. Even in the United Kingdom, where there are some restrictions on campaigning outside certain dates and places, the candidates find ways to stay in the headlines while avoiding certain phrases like "vote for me!" They show off their charity work, their faiths, their families and their "abstract social ideas" when any other kind of politicking is prohibited. Frankly, given these legal conditions, I would rather have an honestly brutal candidate saying exactly what he or she desires to say. It is only then that we see candidates' real opinions.

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xenocity
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08 Jun 2016, 11:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Maybe we should switch to a campaign season that is just a few weeks long, which is the norm in most countries, rather than endless campaigns filling the news media.

It wouldn't change anything...

In other countries the media still runs stories negatively against governments, policies and people they dislike.
In many countries their media is far more vicious than the U.S. media.

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BaalChatzaf
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08 Jun 2016, 11:28 am

TomS wrote:

Welcome to America. Our Founders thought political parties would be a vexation and a curse on governing. How right they were...

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xenocity
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08 Jun 2016, 11:43 am

BaalChatzaf wrote:

TomS wrote:

Welcome to America. Our Founders thought political parties would be a vexation and a curse on governing. How right they were...

Only Washington said that.

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison (author of the constitution) founded the Democratic Party to break Washington and Hamilton control of the Federal Government (founded 1791).

Hamilton, Washington, and Adams founded the Federalist Party to ensure a strong federal government.

Many of the others founded other parties too.

It was the founding fathers who created the political parties and the two party system.

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AspieUtah
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08 Jun 2016, 12:15 pm

xenocity wrote:

BaalChatzaf wrote:

TomS wrote:

Welcome to America. Our Founders thought political parties would be a vexation and a curse on governing. How right they were...

True, but Jefferson also stated to Francis Hopkinson in 1789 that “I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.”

It would seem that Jefferson saw some utility with the creation of a Democratic-Republican Party, but that isn't the same thing as his enthusiastic support for the party.

xenocity
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08 Jun 2016, 12:25 pm

AspieUtah wrote:

xenocity wrote:

BaalChatzaf wrote:

TomS wrote:

Welcome to America. Our Founders thought political parties would be a vexation and a curse on governing. How right they were...

He said a lot of things and constantly switched his tune on many issues.

He ran one of the most vicious presidential campaigns in U.S. History against John Adams (his best friend) to the point of John Adams refusing to speak to him and see him for 30 years.
Very few presidential elections have come close to matching the viciousness of 1800, with this year we might match it.

He was the first one to run a "Trump Style" campaign, though to be fair it is widely believed he suffered from severe bipolar disorder.

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TomS
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08 Jun 2016, 12:40 pm

xenocity wrote:

He ran one of the most vicious presidential campaigns in U.S. History against John Adams (his best friend) to the point of John Adams refusing to speak to him and see him for 30 years.
Very few presidential elections have come close to matching the viciousness of 1800, with this year we might match it.

He was the first one to run a "Trump Style" campaign, though to be fair it is widely believed he suffered from severe bipolar disorder.

The 'battle' waged between candidates is probably nothing new, but the publics exposure to it has changed. Today, it's a regular bombardment day in and out depending on how you access news/entertainment and for something close to two years prior to the election. Given the predominance of negative campaigning is it not possible that the public is being brainwashed to hate the 'other'.

xenocity
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08 Jun 2016, 12:54 pm

TomS wrote:

xenocity wrote:

Back then it was constant bombardment in newspapers as Jefferson wanted max exposure to keep people talking.
This lead to newspapers selling more copies, because people wanted to hear about it.

Today it's similar...
Cable news outlets see their ratings go up every time they mention Trump or Clinton (Sanders doesn't bring in the ratings) in some fashion. This in turn increases advertisers, which in turn increases profits.
TV New is the same, run a story on Trump or Clinton, ratings shoot up, advertisers follow, profits go up.

Websites run a story on Trump or Clinton, their hits go through the roof and they make way more money off of ads.
Tweet something regarding Trump or Clinton, Twitter activity increases globally by a significant amount.
Facebook post about Trump or Clinton, Facebook sees a huge rise in activity.

Etc...

The media needs to make money to stay in business or they will go out of business.
Also the internet has allowed media and news to be democratized.

I mean we could amend the constitution and remove freedom of press and freedom of speech...

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Kraichgauer
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08 Jun 2016, 4:04 pm

xenocity wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

xenocity wrote:

BaalChatzaf wrote:

TomS wrote:

Welcome to America. Our Founders thought political parties would be a vexation and a curse on governing. How right they were...

Adams had called Jefferson a raging atheist, while Jefferson called Adams a raging hermaphrodite.

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BaalChatzaf
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08 Jun 2016, 6:37 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Maybe we should switch to a campaign season that is just a few weeks long, which is the norm in most countries, rather than endless campaigns filling the news media.

There is no constitutional way of enforcing such a limit.

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BaalChatzaf
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08 Jun 2016, 6:38 pm

TomS wrote:

If you think the current election cycle is vile read up on the election of 1800.

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