Scotland seeks independent entry to the European Union

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I think we can safely say, our affair with UKIP, is now over.







I shall miss your dry wit and sarcasm

...I never understood how the USSR did that ~ It was as if the US had gotten Massachusetts and Texas admitted as separate countries . Od' Joe , say what you want about him , was...........Uumm , no dummy , anyhow !
Back then , BTW , one of those seperate " republics " , what we now call Ukraine , was always referred to as " THE Ukraine " , definitive article ahoy .
The Ukraine , not just Ukraine , as it is to-day .
Why did that happen ?

...Lil' ol' thread-killer me ! !! !! !! !! !!

Well,ASS-P I will try to pick up the thread re Ukraine. Apparently the Soviet Union argued that countries like India and Phillippines,which were virtually British and American colonies respectively in 1945,were allowed in the UN,so why shouldn't Soviet 'colonies' be allowed as well ?
The origin of the name Ukraine is 'border country' and 'The Ukraine' is similar to 'The Marches'.

One interesting geographical point about 'Brexit' is that the Scottish National Party have pointed out that Greenland,
which in some respects is a detached part of Denmark,was allowed to Leave the EU,so to allow Scotland to Remain in the EU while part of the UK would be a similar move. It's a rather fanciful notion because unlike Scotland Greenland is very sparsely populated and not home to oil,nuclear submarines,major cities etc.

...Thank you ! I guess both countries were colonies IIRC not " virtually " , even after V-J Day - the Phillippines , at the time the Japanese invaded , were still a US colony but on track to declare full independence , it would've been in 1943?? ~ McArthur was advising them on setting up their army as a separate venture , that''s how he came to get out ahead of the Japanese .

Imagine if Scotland become a separate nation in the EU and win Eurovision but England is bottom, showing how much the Tories and ex Tories in UKIP make everybody hate England, for reasons only the few at the top gain from. It isn't as if there would be a miracle and Tories stop trying to destroy the NHS or stop driving many to food banks, while Scotland have free university education and prescriptions.
Maybe Scotland leaving UK and becoming separate nation in EU will be the wake-up call people need to not believe all the Tory/UKIP propaganda headlines, to get them to vote for what's worse for most people. Maybe people will eventually realise the truth when all the ex Tories in UKIP rejoin Tories, and those who voted to be separate end up crying on Question Time and more ex soldiers could be dying from not affording to refrigerate their insulin. Then again Tories will still destroy our whole nation to protect their tax dodging corporate donors and banks, so they will just have to beam Kardashians in people's faces 24/7 to keep them dumbed down to repeat the anti EU Murdoch and Express propaganda.

It's not surprising that the Express and other media fooled many into thinking it was best to leave the EU, if politicians like Boris Johnson can go on the TV to lie, and nobody notices.
I'm unsure if Boris is stupid or if it's a clown act to get away with telling Tory lies, as on the same show everybody made a fuss because he said Germany never used chemical weapons in wars, he said an even bigger lie that nobody seems to have noticed, because he said there wasn't a vote on the 2nd war against Iraq, when more Tories voted yes to it than other Parties. He either doesn't know what the party he belongs to does, or it's an experiment to see if all most people really remember about politics is last Tory propaganda headline they read. Now he has one of the most important jobs in the country.

I'm English and jealous that Scotland can leave the UK to become a separate nation in the EU, joining other north European nations without Tories who have free university education, with governments who aren't in a war trying to protect the interests of the few at the top, where Eton and Bullingdon Club members give each other top jobs to live for free on expenses, while telling the poor they're not working hard enough just to survive.
While in England the ex Tories in UKIP will rejoin Tories to turn us into a USA state, making the rest of the world hate England for reasons only the few at the top gain from, arming extremists in what liberal middle east countries are left, while not caring about human rights abuses of Saudi Arabia. They will tell English people it's in their best interests to not have any human rights. We won't have sophisticated European food that can be traced back to historical origin. We will become like the USA where they put wood shaving into cheese. Look at the labels in the USA section of a supermarket, where EU compliant labels are put over the ones shown in the USA. EU labels have to show genetically modified and other ingredients not stated in the USA.

i don't know if anyone has mentioned this before (too much in this thread for me to read it all), but one thing that i read a week or two ago was that scotland may face difficulties trying to secede from the uk with the specific intent of entering the eu. they could probably leave the uk, but then the eu part would be tricky, "because europe doesn't want to encourage separatists, and madrid, for one, would instantly oppose scotland's entry, fearing barcelona would be inspired by the scots"

it was just something random on reddit, and i don't have any reliable sources to offer right now. but on first googling, it seems at least credible

You're right, although it appears from the specific wording of Spain's objections that its position may be malleable over time:

Any separate deal for continued Scottish membership before the UK completes its two-year withdrawal process would depend on unanimous support from EU member states. But acting Spanish prime minister Mr Rajoy said after a summit of EU leaders in Brussels that he wanted to be "very clear Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union". Image caption Mr Rajoy and Mr Hollande were in Brussels for a summit of European leaders to discuss the Brexit fallout He added: "Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of United Kingdom. "I am extremely against it, the treaties are extremely against it and I believe everyone is extremely against it. If the United Kingdom leaves... Scotland leaves." Spain was a vocal opponent of Scottish independence ahead of the 2014 referendum, largely because of the situation in Catalonia where there is a strong independence movement.

What this sounds like to me is that Spain will absolutely not permit any discussion of Scottish EU entry until the UK has finalized Brexit in a couple years, but it's important to understand that diplomatic courtesy would require that anyway. So in a sense he's left the door open for discussions after Brexit is complete. Spain's main concern is to not encourage a breakaway by Catalonia, which is why Spain opposed the Scottish independence vote a couple years ago, but that concern is obviated in a situation in which Scotland seeks independence with the idea of entering the EU due to the UK leaving the EU. Unless Spain leaves the EU, the door to a separate Catalonian EU application is closed. Despite some wanting a Spanish EU exit, the possibility of that happening is negligible. So I do see the prospect of Spain possibly letting Scotland in eventually.

Scotland has a possible tool to gain Spanish support; Gibraltar wants to join Scotland in seeking independence and joining the EU and perhaps Scotland can gain Spanish support by refusing Gibraltar. Only time will tell.

I wonder who that “everyone” is who is “extremely against it”. Quite a strong statement.

On the other hand, Catalonia is not Scotland—it can’t just vote for its independence. In fact, it’s not realistic at all to expect it ever to secede from Spain, no matter how many separatists there may be (and time is running out for them, as Catalonia’s linguistic and cultural assimilation by the rest of Spain goes on), unless, for some bizarre reason, some big foreign power decides to support them militarily.

we live in strange times. politics can change overnight, and the implications can be huge and often bizarre. i feel lazy going back to such an easy example yet again once more, but... trump. a year ago he was just kind of a slightly alarming running joke. he's still running, but it's not a joke anymore

now that is something i did not expect. and it's so interesting to think how it's very closely tied to almost literally ancient history (just not literally ancient, but medieval instead). gibraltar is a very peculiar political unit

reminds me of something i read the other day, explaining why scotland agreed to join the uk to begin with. bizarrely, it was because they wanted to colonize panama. except, despite how narrow the land is, trade through panama wasn't actually feasible back then, and the spaniards were already waiting on the other side and weren't happy about the new visitors. so scotland was in huge debt after the spectacular flop, and england offered to assimilate them to settle the issue and avoid violent conflict or further attempts at competition

i may be getting some details wrong, but i remember that that was the gist of the story. bizarre...

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oh i found the video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3HnMLq8m9U

there's also another one speculating on the fate of the uk after the brexit vote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_I2rfApYk

Dunno. Perhaps you could seek clarification from Mauricio Macri, president of the Argentine.

In the English language the country was traditionally called "the Argentine", mimicking the typical Spanish usage la Argentina.[28] This fell out of fashion during the mid-to-late 20th century, and now the country is simply referred to as "Argentina".

A recent survey shows that if given the choice between the EU and the UK,the majority of Scots still favour the UK.
One of the main reasons is bound to be economic as 64% of exports go to the rest of the UK compared to 15% to the EU. These days opinions can change overnight and a lot of people are waiting to see what deal the UK gets with the EU.
In the long term,despite the current trade figures,the rest of the UK is a market of 60 million people whereas the EU
is a potential market of 500 million and possibly expanding.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/brexit-fails-boost-support-scottish-independence/

I don't know what gender fits in with this, but the Scottish referendum business needs someone in charge who can back their self-governance. Take Gordon Brown for one, he was born on exactly the same day and month as me, but for some reason, I felt that he always was a Scot. I'd want to fight for my homeland if it was me in charge.