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John McCain Wants Trump To Retract Wiretapping Claim

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cyberdad
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15 Mar 2017, 8:45 pm

EzraS wrote:
Can you contribute anything to this other than your usual hyperbole and sensationalism?


Explain why a standing POTUS and his millions of supporters would accuse a former POTUS of faking his birth certificate without valid reason? what reason do you think they need?



EzraS
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15 Mar 2017, 8:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Can you contribute anything to this other than your usual hyperbole and sensationalism?


Explain why a standing POTUS and his millions of supporters would accuse a former POTUS of faking his birth certificate without valid reason? what reason do you think they need?


That would depend on how certain it was that Schwarzenegger, McCain and Cruise are not natural born citizens. If it's always been without a doubt, then them providing proof of their place of birth would be completely irrelevant.

That didn't seem to be the case with Obama. With Obama there were doubts about whether or not he was a natural born citizen. The law making that a requirement to become POTUS does not single out a specific country. If any President was an undisclosed non-natural born citizen, it would be an issue.

Are you saying if any President was possibly an undisclosed non-natural born citizen, it would not be an issue?

Please answer the question instead of being Kellyanne Conway style evasive :P



cyberdad
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15 Mar 2017, 9:57 pm

EzraS wrote:
That didn't seem to be the case with Obama. With Obama there were doubts about whether or not he was a natural born citizen. The law making that a requirement to become POTUS does not single out a specific country. If any President was an undisclosed non-natural born citizen, it would be an issue.


ummmm there was actually no doubt about Obama's birth/citizenship before he ran for POTUS and set foot in the whitehouse.

Obama's pre-election release of his official Hawaiian birth certificate in 2008 confirmed beyond reasonable doubt, he was born in the USA - based on the original documents, by the Hawaii Department of Health; the April 2011 release of a certified copy of Obama's original Certificate of Live Birth (or long-form birth certificate); and contemporaneous birth announcements published in Hawaii newspapers.

Yet almost half of republicans (unbelievably) still believe Obama was born in Kenya!! including the nutbar who is currently POTUS

Like I said - dumb (and racist) schmucks



EzraS
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15 Mar 2017, 10:48 pm

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
That didn't seem to be the case with Obama. With Obama there were doubts about whether or not he was a natural born citizen. The law making that a requirement to become POTUS does not single out a specific country. If any President was an undisclosed non-natural born citizen, it would be an issue.


ummmm there was actually no doubt about Obama's birth/citizenship before he ran for POTUS and set foot in the whitehouse.

Obama's pre-election release of his official Hawaiian birth certificate in 2008 confirmed beyond reasonable doubt, he was born in the USA - based on the original documents, by the Hawaii Department of Health; the April 2011 release of a certified copy of Obama's original Certificate of Live Birth (or long-form birth certificate); and contemporaneous birth announcements published in Hawaii newspapers.

Yet almost half of republicans (unbelievably) still believe Obama was born in Kenya!! including the nutbar who is currently POTUS

Like I said - dumb (and racist) schmucks


What I'm seeing is political propaganda against a President. Just like all the stuff regarding the current one and his 101 supposed ties to Russia, including that being the reason he hasn't released his tax records.

It seems more to me that it's the left who turned the birther issue into a racism issue. Which again would just be more political propaganda. It seems the left has always been very determined to make the right out to be racist nazis. That's their ploy to get people not to vote Republican and I think they will use it in any way possible. It seems a very blatantly obvious agenda.

On September 16, 2016, Trump stated "President Barack Obama was born in the United States. Period."



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15 Mar 2017, 11:49 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Why is it that you conservatives shut your eyes to obvious racism?


I'm not sure yet if I am a conservative. I think that in the long run I will end up as a libertarian or something like that. Right now I'm just giving my natural reaction to things. I don't shut my eyes to obvious racism. I just don't see anything directed at a person who's not white as automatically being racist. Or anything being directed at a woman as automatically being misogynistic etc. I think some people just like to play that card any chance they get.

Kraichgauer wrote:
How can you seriously tell me that anyone could legitimately believe Obama wasn't an American by birth, without there being a racist element to it?


I have read/heard more than once how Arnold Schwarzenegger can never run for President because he was not born in America. And the thing is it seems to me that if he had been born in a "non-white" country, certain people would be going on about that being racist.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Say, for the sake of argument, that Obama had been born in Kenya, he would still be born an American, as his mother was an American citizen.


So you are saying if he had been born in Austria, no one would have said anything. That they only said something is because it was Kenya? I have seen both John McCain being born in Panama and Ted Cruse being born in Canada being challenged as them being eligible to run for POTUS.


A libertarian is just a conservative who isn't dominated by the religious right, and who doesn't have a problem with abortion. Ron and Rand Paul are the exception to that rule.
Nobody seriously questioned McCain's right to be President because of his birthplace. But they certainly did with Obama, and, regardless of what you want to believe, it's because he has a black face. And the only one who made a stink bout Cruz being born in Canada was the orange messiah, Trump.


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EzraS
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16 Mar 2017, 1:23 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
A libertarian is just a conservative who isn't dominated by the religious right, and who doesn't have a problem with abortion. Ron and Rand Paul are the exception to that rule.
Nobody seriously questioned McCain's right to be President because of his birthplace. But they certainly did with Obama, and, regardless of what you want to believe, it's because he has a black face. And the only one who made a stink bout Cruz being born in Canada was the orange messiah, Trump.


I'll likely never commit to a political party. I don't want my beliefs and opinions to be regulated that way.

And I get the left pov. For the most part the right must be viewed as intolerant. Must be viewed as racist. Must be viewed as fascist. Etc.

The birther thing was based solely on Obama being black and nothing else. Stuff said against Hillary was based solely on misogyny. And so on.

You and cyberdad seem to have your default settings very firmly set to a very specific ideology that seems to do all the thinking, which is why you both sound so identical.

So yeah, I think I'll skip getting indoctrinated into whatever system.



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16 Mar 2017, 1:29 am

EzraS wrote:
That didn't seem to be the case with Obama. With Obama there were doubts about whether or not he was a natural born citizen.


Obama produced a birth certificate before he ran as POTUS. Should it have read "Hawaii (and not Kenya)" as the place of birth?


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EzraS
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16 Mar 2017, 1:38 am

MDD123 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
That didn't seem to be the case with Obama. With Obama there were doubts about whether or not he was a natural born citizen.


Obama produced a birth certificate before he ran as POTUS. Should it have read "Hawaii (and not Kenya)" as the place of birth?


A regular birth certificate should have been sufficient. But apparently it wasn't and only specifically because Obama has a black face. I could research it further, but what's the point? I've already been given the only possible reason for it, right? There's absolutely nothing else whatsoever to consider.



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16 Mar 2017, 1:55 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
A libertarian is just a conservative who isn't dominated by the religious right, and who doesn't have a problem with abortion. Ron and Rand Paul are the exception to that rule.
Nobody seriously questioned McCain's right to be President because of his birthplace. But they certainly did with Obama, and, regardless of what you want to believe, it's because he has a black face. And the only one who made a stink bout Cruz being born in Canada was the orange messiah, Trump.


I'll likely never commit to a political party. I don't want my beliefs and opinions to be regulated that way.

And I get the left pov. For the most part the right must be viewed as intolerant. Must be viewed as racist. Must be viewed as fascist. Etc.

The birther thing was based solely on Obama being black and nothing else. Stuff said against Hillary was based solely on misogyny. And so on.

You and cyberdad seem to have your default settings very firmly set to a very specific ideology that seems to do all the thinking, which is why you both sound so identical.

So yeah, I think I'll skip getting indoctrinated into whatever system.


Hillary Clinton was disliked because she's a dislikeable person. But to deny that racism had no part in the birther movement is to deny that racism is a major problem in America. And while America is not nearly as racist as it used to be, racism still exists. Why would so many people be so obsessed about Obama's birth certificate when there was no legitimate question about it?
The fact of the matter is, when the Democrats became the left leaning party and defender of civil rights. first Nixon, the Reagan, courted disenfranchised southern white Democrats, thus becoming more and more the home of racist kooks, whether most mainline Republicans want their party to be that or not.


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16 Mar 2017, 11:49 am

McCain is such a piece of s**t, 'you can't accuse Obama of wiretapping without evidence" only later to claim on the senate floor that Rand Paul works for Vladimir Putin. This neocon cabal which Obama, Bush, and Clinton are all part of are a cancer to our republic; these are the most dishonest people on earth and who have effectively been in control of this country for most our lives. This entire Russian narrative is straight up McCarthyism, it's embarrassing.



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16 Mar 2017, 1:47 pm

Jacoby wrote:
McCain is such a piece of s**t, 'you can't accuse Obama of wiretapping without evidence" only later to claim on the senate floor that Rand Paul works for Vladimir Putin. This neocon cabal which Obama, Bush, and Clinton are all part of are a cancer to our republic; these are the most dishonest people on earth and who have effectively been in control of this country for most our lives. This entire Russian narrative is straight up McCarthyism, it's embarrassing.


Refusing to pay workers and contractors, while buddying up to organized crime figures, just to name a few offenses, hardly makes the Orange Messiah that honest.


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16 Mar 2017, 6:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I, for one, am in total agreement with McCain. He's long realized that his party has become the haven for cranks, racists, and loons - in part due to his own Presidential aspirations, when he had taken Sarah Palin on board as his VP choice, and with her, all her nutbar supporters.


:roll: Somehow in your world, saying racist things is worse than killing millions of brown people.


Only when those brown people genuinely have it out for us - whether we are white, brown, or black.
Just killing brown people for little or no reason is racism.


And why do they hate you?


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16 Mar 2017, 8:04 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I, for one, am in total agreement with McCain. He's long realized that his party has become the haven for cranks, racists, and loons - in part due to his own Presidential aspirations, when he had taken Sarah Palin on board as his VP choice, and with her, all her nutbar supporters.


:roll: Somehow in your world, saying racist things is worse than killing millions of brown people.


Only when those brown people genuinely have it out for us - whether we are white, brown, or black.
Just killing brown people for little or no reason is racism.


And why do they hate you?


The narrative of extremist Islam says it's for support of Israel, though if Israel hadn't been founded in the modern world, they would have used colonialism as an excuse. In fact, a leader of the Saudi version of Islam, while studying in America back in the first half of the 20th century had written how western culture was sexualized and decadent. Fareed Zachariah, himself a Muslim American, believes this is truly at the heart of radical Islam's hatred of the west, as fundamentalist Muslims believe women should be wrapped up like mummies, and shouldn't even be allowed out of the house without a male escort. Sex outside of marriage, or even just masturbating, could get a women executed in extremist Islamic societies.


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16 Mar 2017, 9:13 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
McCain is such a piece of s**t, 'you can't accuse Obama of wiretapping without evidence" only later to claim on the senate floor that Rand Paul works for Vladimir Putin. This neocon cabal which Obama, Bush, and Clinton are all part of are a cancer to our republic; these are the most dishonest people on earth and who have effectively been in control of this country for most our lives. This entire Russian narrative is straight up McCarthyism, it's embarrassing.


Refusing to pay workers and contractors, while buddying up to organized crime figures, just to name a few offenses, hardly makes the Orange Messiah that honest.


The orange messiah also dodged being drafted into the Vietnam war by hiding behind his daddy's skirt

and to make matters worse the draft dodger called John McCain (a real war hero) a loser for being caputred and tortured by the enemy.

This means war vets who support Trump (there's plenty of them) are actually supporting a coward and draft dodger who consistently stabs one of their own in the back



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16 Mar 2017, 10:25 pm

EzraS wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
That didn't seem to be the case with Obama. With Obama there were doubts about whether or not he was a natural born citizen.


Obama produced a birth certificate before he ran as POTUS. Should it have read "Hawaii (and not Kenya)" as the place of birth?


A regular birth certificate should have been sufficient. But apparently it wasn't and only specifically because Obama has a black face. I could research it further, but what's the point? I've already been given the only possible reason for it, right? There's absolutely nothing else whatsoever to consider.


The circumstances make it look racist. Obama was the first president with a dark complexion and an ethnic sounding last name; and he was the first one to get questioned about his place of birth. There are a lot of things I don't think are racist, such as his wall agenda (just dumb).


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17 Mar 2017, 2:54 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I, for one, am in total agreement with McCain. He's long realized that his party has become the haven for cranks, racists, and loons - in part due to his own Presidential aspirations, when he had taken Sarah Palin on board as his VP choice, and with her, all her nutbar supporters.


:roll: Somehow in your world, saying racist things is worse than killing millions of brown people.


Only when those brown people genuinely have it out for us - whether we are white, brown, or black.
Just killing brown people for little or no reason is racism.


And why do they hate you?


The narrative of extremist Islam says it's for support of Israel, though if Israel hadn't been founded in the modern world, they would have used colonialism as an excuse. In fact, a leader of the Saudi version of Islam, while studying in America back in the first half of the 20th century had written how western culture was sexualized and decadent. Fareed Zachariah, himself a Muslim American, believes this is truly at the heart of radical Islam's hatred of the west, as fundamentalist Muslims believe women should be wrapped up like mummies, and shouldn't even be allowed out of the house without a male escort. Sex outside of marriage, or even just masturbating, could get a women executed in extremist Islamic societies.


No, not 'extremist Islam', your ally friends in the area such as bankers and business men. And it's not just because of the US's support for Israel and the brutal military occupation. It's because the US has been blocking democracy in the region for decades and installing and/or brutal dictators.

This should help-


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