Trump Wants Solar Panels For Border Wall

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AnonymousAnonymous
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06 Jun 2017, 9:01 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/06/politics/trump-solar-border-wall/index.html


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Aristophanes
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06 Jun 2017, 9:11 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:

He realizes we're in the northern hemisphere and thus those solar panels will have to be installed on the south part of the wall to reach maximum effectiveness right?...Meaning some Mexican gangs will now be in the solar business...or we could install them directly on top and pull 50% efficiency or the north and pull 30% efficiency, yay for waste!



cyberdad
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06 Jun 2017, 9:23 pm

If Hitler was still lurking about in 2017 he would also use solar panels to power concentration camps. Sustainable design makes sense whatever you are building.



EzraS
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07 Jun 2017, 5:29 am

Aristophanes wrote:
He realizes we're in the northern hemisphere and thus those solar panels will have to be installed on the south part of the wall to reach maximum effectiveness right?...Meaning some Mexican gangs will now be in the solar business...or we could install them directly on top and pull 50% efficiency or the north and pull 30% efficiency, yay for waste!


What if they were placed on top of the wall in a viirtical inverted V shape like: /\ ?



Aristophanes
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07 Jun 2017, 5:53 am

EzraS wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
He realizes we're in the northern hemisphere and thus those solar panels will have to be installed on the south part of the wall to reach maximum effectiveness right?...Meaning some Mexican gangs will now be in the solar business...or we could install them directly on top and pull 50% efficiency or the north and pull 30% efficiency, yay for waste!


What if they were placed on top of the wall in a viirtical inverted V shape like: /\ ?

Lol, still 50% efficiency because you need two panels as opposed to one now, since only one of those panels is pulling full power at any given time. Solar is tricky, and it's not well suited for every environment due to earth/sun positioning. Now if he was serious about solar, the best place in the U.S. for it is central to northern Arizona and New Mexico, into southern Utah and Colorado-- the high desert of the Colorado plateau (also where I happen to live, yay me). The high desert sits on average approximately a mile above sea level so there's less atmospheric interference with the panels, being outside of major metropolises there's also less smog pollution that creates the same effect, and the region gets very little cloud cover compared to other regions.

*For the record I'm for tamping down illegal immigration I just happen to think the wall, especially as a sole deterrent is a poor option, I think we'd get more bang for our buck with increased surveillance (more border patrol + unmanned craft), and laying the proverbial shit-hammer on employers that hire illegal workers (10k fine per undocumented worker = no employers hiring illegals and thus no job = no reason to come).



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07 Jun 2017, 7:06 am

I was just wondering if there was a workable solution rather than being bent towards finding everything potentially wrong with it.



Jacoby
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07 Jun 2017, 7:31 am

The wall serves a specific purpose, people that don't live on the border do not understand its necessity and purposely try to muddy the water by acting as if that is literally the only thing that will be done about illegal immigration. Saying you can accomplish more with surveillance + crackdowns on employers is ignorant since there already is surveillance and crackdowns on employers, you can only do so much with these employer crackdowns tho without being accused of profiling which is exactly the situation Sheriff Joe was in(raiding illegal work sites) Surveillance is dumb too, that's not the issue when Obama rolled out the red carpet for anybody that made it to our border especially if you said(without any proof of course) that you are under 18. It's about stopping the cartels and their trafficking, hundreds of people die every year crossing the border many of whom are just abandoned out in the desert to die by the cartels or their coyote.



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07 Jun 2017, 7:56 am

Jacoby wrote:
The wall serves a specific purpose, people that don't live on the border do not understand its necessity and purposely try to muddy the water by acting as if that is literally the only thing that will be done about illegal immigration. Saying you can accomplish more with surveillance + crackdowns on employers is ignorant since there already is surveillance and crackdowns on employers, you can only do so much with these employer crackdowns tho without being accused of profiling which is exactly the situation Sheriff Joe was in(raiding illegal work sites) Surveillance is dumb too, that's not the issue when Obama rolled out the red carpet for anybody that made it to our border especially if you said(without any proof of course) that you are under 18. It's about stopping the cartels and their trafficking, hundreds of people die every year crossing the border many of whom are just abandoned out in the desert to die by the cartels or their coyote.


And yet, over half the state of Texas disagrees with you on the effectiveness of said border wall, you know the people with the longest stretch of border in the country, and the one's making the claim loudest are the ones that live right next to said border. I'll trust them on this issue.
Asking for papers from businesses is not what Joe got in trouble for (he has no authority to ask for papers from businesses, nor raid businesses, that's the sole authority of INS, and ICE respectively), Joe got in trouble for telling his employees to stop every vehicle that had a Hispanic driver, a completely different issue.

Making the risk too high to hire illegal workers will stop immigration, because no legitimate company in the world is going to hire illegals if the cost of getting caught is complete devaluation of their company. No jobs = no immigrants.

The drug issue is another altogether since the cartels you mention don't operate in this country, they operate in Mexico where we have 0 authority. That solution is as easy as legalization, since the war on drugs does nothing to stop demand, best to cut out the ruthless middleman and his mafia organization and generate revenue in the process. Example: Colorado where I live, we've had a booming economy for 3 years now, a down tick in drug related violence, less teenage drug use and excess state revenue, all from merely legalizing marijuana. It works.



Jacoby
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07 Jun 2017, 9:06 am

Aristophanes wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The wall serves a specific purpose, people that don't live on the border do not understand its necessity and purposely try to muddy the water by acting as if that is literally the only thing that will be done about illegal immigration. Saying you can accomplish more with surveillance + crackdowns on employers is ignorant since there already is surveillance and crackdowns on employers, you can only do so much with these employer crackdowns tho without being accused of profiling which is exactly the situation Sheriff Joe was in(raiding illegal work sites) Surveillance is dumb too, that's not the issue when Obama rolled out the red carpet for anybody that made it to our border especially if you said(without any proof of course) that you are under 18. It's about stopping the cartels and their trafficking, hundreds of people die every year crossing the border many of whom are just abandoned out in the desert to die by the cartels or their coyote.


And yet, over half the state of Texas disagrees with you on the effectiveness of said border wall, you know the people with the longest stretch of border in the country, and the one's making the claim loudest are the ones that live right next to said border. I'll trust them on this issue.
Asking for papers from businesses is not what Joe got in trouble for (he has no authority to ask for papers from businesses, nor raid businesses, that's the sole authority of INS, and ICE respectively), Joe got in trouble for telling his employees to stop every vehicle that had a Hispanic driver, a completely different issue.

Making the risk too high to hire illegal workers will stop immigration, because no legitimate company in the world is going to hire illegals if the cost of getting caught is complete devaluation of their company. No jobs = no immigrants.

The drug issue is another altogether since the cartels you mention don't operate in this country, they operate in Mexico where we have 0 authority. That solution is as easy as legalization, since the war on drugs does nothing to stop demand, best to cut out the ruthless middleman and his mafia organization and generate revenue in the process. Example: Colorado where I live, we've had a booming economy for 3 years now, a down tick in drug related violence, less teenage drug use and excess state revenue, all from merely legalizing marijuana. It works.


Almost half the country voted for Hillary so I don't see your point. Arizona is a border state, I know plenty about the border so trust me.

You don't really support combating illegal immigration and would oppose any move to bring it under control, "just go after the employers" is such a meaningless cliche at this point because even that would be accused of racist. That's exactly what Sheriff Joe was doing with raids on day-laborers, how can you go after illegal labor without being accused of racism? You should just be honest and say you support open borders, try to defend that position rather than lie and pretend to be reasonable so not to be totally disqualified from the discussion. Bleeding hearts think it's cruel to deport people or stop them from every coming, that every peasant from around the world has a right to the American welfare state but you're wrong and leading the country to ruin.

As for the cartels, drug legalization is something that should happen but you are wrong when you say that they do not operate on our side of the border and ignore the human trafficking element which is a threat to our national security not just to their lives. People come from all around the world to Mexico to anonymously cross the border into the United States, Border Patrol has found Qurans and all types of foreign language stuff besides Spanish out in the desert. Not being able to achieve perfect world solutions doesn't mean that we should not be pragmatic, acting as if this wall won't achieve anything is just not true. We spent something like $2 trillion in Iraq, Obama wasted trillions too for little show for it, $10-20 billion for a tangible piece of infrastructure which can be funded by a simple tax isn't overly ambitious in comparison and we'll still get more out of it in the end.



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07 Jun 2017, 9:45 am

Aristophanes wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:

He realizes we're in the northern hemisphere and thus those solar panels will have to be installed on the south part of the wall to reach maximum effectiveness right?...Meaning some Mexican gangs will now be in the solar business...or we could install them directly on top and pull 50% efficiency or the north and pull 30% efficiency, yay for waste!


Who says they have to be installed on top and not in a solar farm on empty land?
Image

cyberdad wrote:
If Hitler was still lurking about in 2017 he would also use solar panels to power concentration camps. Sustainable design makes sense whatever you are building.


Completely irrelevant...



Aristophanes
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07 Jun 2017, 10:30 am

Jacoby wrote:
You don't really support combating illegal immigration and would oppose any move to bring it under control, "just go after the employers" is such a meaningless cliche at this point because even that would be accused of racist. That's exactly what Sheriff Joe was doing with raids on day-laborers, how can you go after illegal labor without being accused of racism? You should just be honest and say you support open borders, try to defend that position rather than lie and pretend to be reasonable so not to be totally disqualified from the discussion. Bleeding hearts think it's cruel to deport people or stop them from every coming, that every peasant from around the world has a right to the American welfare state but you're wrong and leading the country to ruin.

First: what do you think happens when there's a wall? People find a way around it, through the Gulf, the Atlantic, the Pacific, Canada, or just dig under the wall, like they're already doing. A wall does nothing to stop the raw economics of the matter, which drive people to come here. A wall didn't stop the Celts from eventually running over the Romans in the British Isles, it didn't stop Kublai Kahn and his Mongol horde from eventually conquering China, it didn't stop the Trojans from being conquered by the Mycenaeans, nor the Persians from entering Greece through Thermopylae, and if you want to go biblical it didn't stop Jericho from being overran-- and it won't stop immigration here. "Great walls" have a dismal success rate. That's why taking the jobs away is key, it cuts right into the economics of the matter: no demand, no immigrants, as easy as that.

Second: you know nothing about me, I work in agriculture, on a medium size plot that produces hydroponic tomatoes and peppers. I probably have 10x the vested interest in seeing illegal immigration stopped than you do asshat. That's why I care about solutions that actually work, not meaningless symbols that just make people 'feel' better about the situation. Do you even work? Or are you one those millennial snowflakes that still lives with mom and dad with no world experience that just happens to think they know it all? Because you certainly sound like it. I work, and I work f*****g hard for a payday that gets smaller and smaller each season because of this very issue.

That said the racist tactics your Sheriff Joe used (just stop every Mexican you see and deport) are not the answer. Why? Because I live in an area with a large hispanic population, and they were here well before white people were-- as is your area (we only live about 300 miles apart as the crow flies). I went to school with them, I grew up with them, and they're completely 'Americanized' and you know who hates illegal immigrants more than anyone? Those hispanics that have been in the Southwest for literally 300 years. They hate it, they hate people speaking Spanish to them because most don't know it, they hate going into jobs and automatically getting offered less because it's 'assumed' they're illegal, they hate Cinco D'Mayo because they were never Mexican to begin with and they don't like the baggage that comes with it, and they hate having 150 years of progress working towards respect in American culture just flushed down the drain by people they don't even see related to them. My next door neighbor growing up, who was the closest thing I've had to a brother, voted for Pat Buchanon in the 2000 election precisely because of this issue and a large part of his family did as well. Flash forward 15 years and Kenny (with a Hispanic name like that you can just tell he's not 'integrated' huh?) won't vote that side again due to the increase in racial profiling that affects him and his family due to the policies your side advocates for. It's a shame, I don't agree with Republicans on much, but this is one issue you're correct on and you guys completely bungle it up by false assumptions (paragraph above) and a healthy dose of racial tension thrown into the mix, which turns off what would be a core support group to get this issue over the top: generations old Americans that just happen to have hispanic descent.

So I say, build your wall, see what good it does for you except raise your parent's taxes, it's actually one of the least dangerous things Trump's proposed, but don't think for a minute it's going to have an impact on people actually gaining access to this country. They're here for the economics, end of story, as long as employers are allowed to hire with no repercussions there's nothing stopping illegals from doing everything possible to get here because there's a demand for them.



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07 Jun 2017, 10:38 am

SH90 wrote:
Who says they have to be installed on top and not in a solar farm on empty land?
Image


I'm sure there are viable engineering possibilities instead of only ones that would fail.

SH90 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
If Hitler was still lurking about in 2017 he would also use solar panels to power concentration camps. Sustainable design makes sense whatever you are building.


Completely irrelevant...


Hitler always has to be brought into a conversation regarding Trump regardless of relevancy :roll:



Last edited by EzraS on 07 Jun 2017, 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Jun 2017, 10:39 am

It's pretty much a "given." People will find a way to bypass the wall.

What a waste of billions of dollars should this happen!



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07 Jun 2017, 10:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It's pretty much a "given." People will find a way to bypass the wall.

What a waste of billions of dollars should this happen!


I wonder how effective the Berlin Wall was?



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07 Jun 2017, 10:46 am

Unfortunately, it was quite effective for a long time. But it covered a much smaller area, so it can be guarded quite easily.



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07 Jun 2017, 10:47 am

Aristophanes wrote:
...the cartels you mention don't operate in this country, they operate in Mexico...

It amazes me how often your posts come-across so matter-of-factly, and are so wrong..... Mexican cartels operating in the U.S., is common knowledge, IMO----and, aside from what Jacoby mentioned about "human trafficking being an element", they also funnel guns from Guatemala through the U.S., to Mexico. How could you not know that----especially, when speaking so matter-of-factly makes it sound like you know something about it?

Here's an article discussing Mexican drug cartels, operating in the U.S.----and, there's PLENTY more articles:

http://extract.suntimes.com/extract-news/top-mexican-drug-cartels-in-united-states/


Sun Times wrote:
Mexican TCOs, also known as cartels, control drug trafficking of heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana across the Southwest border of the U.S. and throughout much of the country.

Cartels are currently working to expand their U.S. presence, particularly into the country’s heroin markets, the DEA reports.

In 2014 there were nine major cartels operating in Mexico and the United States. The Sinaloa Cartel currently dominates the largest region of influence and power among all nine.

The Sinaloa Cartel “leverages its expansive resources and dominance in Mexico” to smuggle and transport drugs throughout the U.S., according to the DEA.





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