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androbot01
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10 Jun 2017, 3:05 pm

New York Times: Bill Maher Returns to ‘Real Time’ on HBO After Use of Racial Slur

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This latest controversy occurred last week during an interview on “Real Time” with Senator Ben Sasse, Republican of Nebraska. Mr. Maher said he needed to travel to Nebraska more often.

Mr. Sasse said: “You’re welcome. We’d love to have you work in the fields with us.”

Mr. Maher answered, “Work in the fields?” And then used a pejorative.


Maher's apology didn't seem too heartfelt. I don't think his use of the word was appropriate and it was good that he had a discussion about it on his show.



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10 Jun 2017, 3:43 pm

Yeah, Maher didn't seem too contrite, and I don't think he really got why dropping the n-bomb was wrong...

I think ice cube and Simon Sanders did a good job trying to explain why it was wrong, and should never be done by a white person... even Bill Maher.

Overall, I think/hope it was at least a good teachable moment.


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androbot01
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10 Jun 2017, 3:54 pm

I agree. It was not appropriate for him to use the word. And I don't think he gets it. He thinks that because the intent was humour that it is harmless, but the word is too culturally charged.



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10 Jun 2017, 4:49 pm

androbot01 wrote:
... And I don't think he gets it. He thinks that because the intent was humour that it is harmless, but the word is too culturally charged.

I was like that a long time ago. I had grown up in a bigoted, all-white rural area without ever knowing or learning anything about how the word could pierce other people, then I once used it jokingly while a nearby white guy was pretending to be black and I was overheard by some people offended on the other side of a room divider. Bill Maher needs to "drop the N bomb" in a setting like that where he will get his ears pinned like I did in order to learn a lesson that will never be forgotten, then also take the time to truly learn and understand why the word is so horribly offensive.


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10 Jun 2017, 6:36 pm

Both Ice Cube and Professor Michael Eric Dyson said they thought Maher is not a racist, that Maher should not need to lose his job over this but Maher kept on repeating that his error was one-time thing, a comedian thing. That makes it look like he does not understand how bad the error was which I find hard to believe. Maher's political/comedian career is based on understanding this.


Personal Note:
Maher is a year or two older than me and grew up in a similar neighborhood. Many words that were innocuous have become offensive and I do have sympathy for my fellow boomers that are getting called all sorts of vile things because they truly do not understand because they do not spend time on threads like this. With maybe a few exceptions (such as saying somebody called somebody else that word) I never heard that word being used by a white person in anything but a hateful context.


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11 Jun 2017, 1:11 am

As ugly as that word is, as I understand it, Maher had said it in a self-deprecating way, and not directed at black Americans. I'm willing to forgive him, as plenty of African Americans are.


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11 Jun 2017, 1:37 am

He shouldn't have apologized. He didn't direct the word at anyone but himself, used it in a clearly joking, not hateful, manner and context, and his whole brand is built around free speech and pushing boundaries. His half-assed apology didn't satisfy anyone, the beacons of tolerance and goodness still want his show canceled despite his putting on the hair shirt, and he missed out on an opportunity for a real "teachable moment" about context and intent when it comes to potentially sensitive topics, a sorely needed lesson. I've always thought of Maher as a dick, but an honest one, and this doesn't feel honest, this feels like him trying a appease a certain loud segment of his audience, but in the process, overlooking an opportunity to actually expand it. "Yeah, I said it, deal with it" would have been more his style.

Having Ice Cube on to chastise him was particularly rich, this is the guy who's personally responsible for introducing casual use of n***a and it's variants to a whole new generation of white people; between his musical career and the Friday franchise, I'd say he has more responsibility there than most (I say that as someone who can quote Friday verbatim and doesn't say "n-word" while doing so). If Ice Cube (or any other black entertainer, for that matter) doesn't want white people using that particular slur, they need to give it up themselves, "do as I say not as I do" doesn't really work here, or with pop culture in general.


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11 Jun 2017, 7:25 am

Dox47 wrote:
... Ice Cube...personally responsible for introducing casual use of n***a and it's variants...

I used to drive a cab and I was quite surprised when I began hearing blacks using that word in reference to each other, then I asked about that and was told it does not mean the same thing as the "N" word. I did not understand at the time, but now I think that might be a way people of color have claimed the "N" word for themselves in order to re-define it a bit and reduce the sting...or something like that.


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11 Jun 2017, 8:21 am

Everyone says something they shouldn't. And they say a lot more than they shouldn't when they're talking privately (or at least think they are). Let he who has never committed this sin throw the first stone.



leejosepho
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11 Jun 2017, 8:41 am

EzraS wrote:
Everyone says something they shouldn't. And they say a lot more than they shouldn't when they're talking privately (or at least think they are). Let he who has never committed this sin throw the first stone.

I am far from convinced everyone says something they shouldn't, and neither do I see any pots calling kettles black here in this thread. What we have is a situation where something said was quite inappropriate and we are simply discussing related factors.


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androbot01
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11 Jun 2017, 10:04 am

Dox47 wrote:
He shouldn't have apologized. He didn't direct the word at anyone but himself, used it in a clearly joking, not hateful, manner and context, and his whole brand is built around free speech and pushing boundaries. His half-assed apology didn't satisfy anyone, the beacons of tolerance and goodness still want his show canceled despite his putting on the hair shirt, and he missed out on an opportunity for a real "teachable moment" about context and intent when it comes to potentially sensitive topics, a sorely needed lesson.

I agree. His apology was not sincere and his true feelings came through. Perhaps he should have attempted to defend his use of the word.

Dox47 wrote:
I've always thought of Maher as a dick, but an honest one, and this doesn't feel honest, this feels like him trying a appease a certain loud segment of his audience, but in the process, overlooking an opportunity to actually expand it. "Yeah, I said it, deal with it" would have been more his style.

In keeping with his style, this is what he should have said. It was the perfect moment for challenging political correctness.

Dox47 wrote:
Having Ice Cube on to chastise him was particularly rich, this is the guy who's personally responsible for introducing casual use of n***a and it's variants to a whole new generation of white people; between his musical career and the Friday franchise, I'd say he has more responsibility there than most (I say that as someone who can quote Friday verbatim and doesn't say "n-word" while doing so). If Ice Cube (or any other black entertainer, for that matter) doesn't want white people using that particular slur, they need to give it up themselves, "do as I say not as I do" doesn't really work here, or with pop culture in general.


I think white people need to stay away from using the N word, even if it is not aimed at anyone in malice. This is because we are still too close in time to the word being used repressively.

It is just a word, but one that is stoked with emotion. It is the emotion, not the word that has caused Maher's problem.

The U.S. was built on slavery and exploitation. It's an ugly history and too often white people figure they can just forget about it and put in it the past. But not enough time has passed and there are still a lot of racists in America.



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11 Jun 2017, 10:10 am

leejosepho wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
... Ice Cube...personally responsible for introducing casual use of n***a and it's variants...

I used to drive a cab and I was quite surprised when I began hearing blacks using that word in reference to each other, then I asked about that and was told it does not mean the same thing as the "N" word. I did not understand at the time, but now I think that might be a way people of color have claimed the "N" word for themselves in order to re-define it a bit and reduce the sting...or something like that.


It still surprises me to hear it used casually because of the way I mostly heard usually the word used and reacted to way way proir to political correctness. But I can see understand how it has been used to reclaimed like autistic. Difference is blacks do not want non blacks using it or its variations, many of us want non autistics to call us autistic instead of people with autism.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 11 Jun 2017, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Jun 2017, 10:41 am

leejosepho wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Everyone says something they shouldn't. And they say a lot more than they shouldn't when they're talking privately (or at least think they are). Let he who has never committed this sin throw the first stone.

I am far from convinced everyone says something they shouldn't, and neither do I see any pots calling kettles black here in this thread. What we have is a situation where something said was quite inappropriate and we are simply discussing related factors.


I was just giving my personal opinion regarding this sort of matter in general. It wasn't directed at anyone in this thread or even in regard to what's being said in this thread.



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11 Jun 2017, 10:57 am

Dox47 wrote:
He shouldn't have apologized. He didn't direct the word at anyone but himself, used it in a clearly joking, not hateful, manner and context, and his whole brand is built around free speech and pushing boundaries. His half-assed apology didn't satisfy anyone, the beacons of tolerance and goodness still want his show canceled despite his putting on the hair shirt, and he missed out on an opportunity for a real "teachable moment" about context and intent when it comes to potentially sensitive topics, a sorely needed lesson. I've always thought of Maher as a dick, but an honest one, and this doesn't feel honest, this feels like him trying a appease a certain loud segment of his audience, but in the process, overlooking an opportunity to actually expand it. "Yeah, I said it, deal with it" would have been more his style.

Having Ice Cube on to chastise him was particularly rich, this is the guy who's personally responsible for introducing casual use of n***a and it's variants to a whole new generation of white people; between his musical career and the Friday franchise, I'd say he has more responsibility there than most (I say that as someone who can quote Friday verbatim and doesn't say "n-word" while doing so). If Ice Cube (or any other black entertainer, for that matter) doesn't want white people using that particular slur, they need to give it up themselves, "do as I say not as I do" doesn't really work here, or with pop culture in general.

I am no fan of his correctors or most of what they said. I dislike using the euphemisms in certain contexts because it dulls the shock value of the full word. I will use the full word in the rest of this post.

Sly and and Family Stone had a song out where they sang "Don't call me n****r, wh***y, Don't call me wh***y, n****r" and it was sung on uncensored on network TV in 1969. The full word is better then the "N-word" for that message. In 1978 Elvis Costello sang "one less white n****r" in the song "Oliver's Army" with not much controversy as I recall. I have mixed feelings about the use of "white n****r".

Maher did not just say "n****r" but called himself a "house n****r". Those two words combined have a particulary odius meaning. Similar to "Uncle Tom", a black person who sold out his or her fellow blacks and his or herself to curry favor with with their oppressors. I can not see how it can not be anything but offensive for white people to call themselves that. Maher was reacting to a remark about working in the fields which definiltly brings up the slavory issue.

Maher should have apologized once then shut the f**k up took his comeuppance no matter how wrong his correctors were and resumed his career.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 11 Jun 2017, 11:59 am, edited 5 times in total.

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11 Jun 2017, 10:58 am

leejosepho wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Everyone says something they shouldn't. And they say a lot more than they shouldn't when they're talking privately (or at least think they are). Let he who has never committed this sin throw the first stone.

I am far from convinced everyone says something they shouldn't, and neither do I see any pots calling kettles black here in this thread. What we have is a situation where something said was quite inappropriate and we are simply discussing related factors.


This forum is hardly considered private, even the members only forum. People are typically a little more refrained on what they post, vs what they would say in private among comrades.

Have I, sure. Am I a bad person? No just mildly flawed... My attorney would like to make statement:



androbot01
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11 Jun 2017, 11:05 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sly and and Family Stone had a song out where they sang "Don 't call me wh***y, Don't Call me n****r" and it was sung on uncensored on network TV in 1969. The full word is better then the "N-word" for that message. In 1978 Elvis Costello sang "one less white n****r" in the song "Oliver's Army" with not much controversy as I recall. I have mixed feelings about the use of "white n****r".


I remember an episode of "The Jeffersons" back in the '70s. It was a prime time sitcom and they used the word at least once that I remember.