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ASPartOfMe
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26 Sep 2017, 4:52 am

A lot of people who until Friday were complaining about thought police censoring and shaming unpopular “conservative” thought are shaming Football players excercising thier right to express thier opinion.

Their employers agree with thier doing this which is ironically is in part a protest against the President (government) trying to intimidate a private enterprise into following policies the President likes. If I owned a company I would personally ban political statements during company time but since I do not own a team I get no say. The only new ground broken here is the type of political statement. The anthem ceremony itself is a political statement.


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cyberdad
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26 Sep 2017, 5:26 am

But didn't Misslizard post that the NFL players contract doesn't prohibit them from not standing during the national anthem?



LoveNotHate
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26 Sep 2017, 7:17 am

Reverend Jesse Jackson calls for a boycott of the NFL.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l ... 105990010/

Trump calls for a boycott of the NFL.



Aristophanes
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26 Sep 2017, 9:46 am

Of all people, Jerry Jones did the smartest thing I've seen to diffuse the situation. He knelt with his players before the national anthem and then they all stood for the anthem itself. That's pragmatism right there, now watch as both sides pick him apart like vultures, because this issue isn't about the flag or free speech, those are red herrings to the racial politics that are at the underbelly of the controversy.



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26 Sep 2017, 11:09 am

This older gentleman served our country,believes in free speech.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ww ... es-n804576


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Raptor
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26 Sep 2017, 12:23 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The anthem ceremony itself is a political statement.

No, the National Anthem is for the whole country without regard to political affiliation.

BTW: Aren't all conservatives merely paid trolls?


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SH90
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26 Sep 2017, 1:07 pm

While there is not a specific rule in the NFL CoC or in one of players contract that's readily available online. There is a catch all, that we employers call,"don't be a jackass clause."

Quote:
Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL personnel.


Quote:
Club employs Player as a skilled football player. Player accepts such employment. He agrees to give his best efforts and loyalty to the Club, and to conduct himself on and off the field with appropriate recognition of the fact that the success of professional football depends largely on public respect for and approval of those associated with the game.


It's also in the National Anthem CoC.
Quote:
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.


It's also stated in the NFL rulebook, the league will not grant permission for political activities or causes. So the rules are there, just need to be enforced.

Quote:
ARTICLE 8. PERSONAL MESSAGES. Throughout the period on game-day that a player is visible to the stadium and television audience (including in pregame warm-ups, in the bench area, and during postgame interviews in the locker room or on the field), players are prohibited from wearing, displaying, or otherwise conveying personal messages either in writing or illustration, unless such message has been approved in advance by the League office. Items to celebrate anniversaries or memorable events, or to honor or commemorate individuals, such as helmet decals, and arm bands and jersey patches on players’ uniforms, are prohibited unless approved in advance by the League office. All such items approved by the League office, if any, must relate to team or League events or personages. The League will not grant permission for any club or player to wear, display, or otherwise convey messages, through helmet decals, arm bands, jersey patches, or other items affixed to game uniforms or equipment, which relate to political activities or causes, other non-football events, causes or campaigns, or charitable causes or campaigns. Further, any such approved items must be modest in size, tasteful, non-commercial, and noncontroversial; must not be worn for more than one football season; and if approved for use by a specific team, must not be worn by players on other teams in the League.



Aristophanes
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26 Sep 2017, 1:29 pm

^^They're a private league, they're allowed to make and break their own rules. Also your last quote is a clothing rule, no where does it specify actions, merely apparel.



ASPartOfMe
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26 Sep 2017, 1:32 pm

Raptor wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The anthem ceremony itself is a political statement.

No, the National Anthem is for the whole country without regard to political affiliation.

BTW: Aren't all conservatives merely paid trolls?


It is not a pro-political party statement but a generic pro-America statement which is literal nationalism.


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Chichikov
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26 Sep 2017, 1:44 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
^^They're a private league, they're allowed to make and break their own rules.

Exactly. Let's say it's the Superbowl and one team is 5 points behind with seconds on the clock and they get a field goal, that team can be given 6 points for the field goal to win. NFL rules and regulations 11-1-2 (b) says that a field goal is worth three points, but they're a private league, they're allowed to break their own rules.



ASPartOfMe
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26 Sep 2017, 1:52 pm

SH90 wrote:
While there is not a specific rule in the NFL CoC or in one of players contract that's readily available online. There is a catch all, that we employers call,"don't be a jackass clause."

Quote:
Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL personnel.


Quote:
Club employs Player as a skilled football player. Player accepts such employment. He agrees to give his best efforts and loyalty to the Club, and to conduct himself on and off the field with appropriate recognition of the fact that the success of professional football depends largely on public respect for and approval of those associated with the game.


It's also in the National Anthem CoC.
Quote:
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.


It's also stated in the NFL rulebook, the league will not grant permission for political activities or causes. So the rules are there, just need to be enforced.

Quote:
ARTICLE 8. PERSONAL MESSAGES. Throughout the period on game-day that a player is visible to the stadium and television audience (including in pregame warm-ups, in the bench area, and during postgame interviews in the locker room or on the field), players are prohibited from wearing, displaying, or otherwise conveying personal messages either in writing or illustration, unless such message has been approved in advance by the League office. Items to celebrate anniversaries or memorable events, or to honor or commemorate individuals, such as helmet decals, and arm bands and jersey patches on players’ uniforms, are prohibited unless approved in advance by the League office. All such items approved by the League office, if any, must relate to team or League events or personages. The League will not grant permission for any club or player to wear, display, or otherwise convey messages, through helmet decals, arm bands, jersey patches, or other items affixed to game uniforms or equipment, which relate to political activities or causes, other non-football events, causes or campaigns, or charitable causes or campaigns. Further, any such approved items must be modest in size, tasteful, non-commercial, and noncontroversial; must not be worn for more than one football season; and if approved for use by a specific team, must not be worn by players on other teams in the League.


Until Trump got involved they choose to semi enforce it by blackballing Colin Kaepernick. Now they chose not to enforce it but embrace breaking their own rules. Companies do not enforce and selectively enforce their own rules all the time. NT's often run these companies so rules are often drawn up to make people feel good.

In this case the NFL decided that to enforce the rules would be more costly than doing what they did. It is all about profit, nothing more, nothing less. It shows they believe all this boycott talk going on is all hot air. They are probably right. After strikes, fans are always talking about boycotting and the most that happens is a temporary drop in attendance. The progressives have shown the ability to economically hurt people. The last successful conservative boycott I can think of off hand is Jane Fonda movies for her trip to North Vietnam


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Aristophanes
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26 Sep 2017, 2:09 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
^^They're a private league, they're allowed to make and break their own rules.

Exactly. Let's say it's the Superbowl and one team is 5 points behind with seconds on the clock and they get a field goal, that team can be given 6 points for the field goal to win. NFL rules and regulations 11-1-2 (b) says that a field goal is worth three points, but they're a private league, they're allowed to break their own rules.

It's true, they could. They could flat out predetermine the winner of a contest if they wanted to. Probably not good for business (although WWF would disagree), but it's well within their rights to do what they want in their own private business.



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26 Sep 2017, 2:17 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Raptor wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The anthem ceremony itself is a political statement.

No, the National Anthem is for the whole country without regard to political affiliation.

BTW: Aren't all conservatives merely paid trolls?


It is not a pro-political party statement but a generic pro-America statement which is literal nationalism.


Oh, that's right!
I keep forgetting that we're all just supposed to be stateless persons of the universe or at least have the decency to be ashamed of our countries, especially if that country is (gasp!) The United Stats of America.
To do otherwise will surely result in genocide.
What was I thinking????
:roll:


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Chichikov
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26 Sep 2017, 2:41 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
^^They're a private league, they're allowed to make and break their own rules.

Exactly. Let's say it's the Superbowl and one team is 5 points behind with seconds on the clock and they get a field goal, that team can be given 6 points for the field goal to win. NFL rules and regulations 11-1-2 (b) says that a field goal is worth three points, but they're a private league, they're allowed to break their own rules.

It's true, they could. They could flat out predetermine the winner of a contest if they wanted to. Probably not good for business (although WWF would disagree), but it's well within their rights to do what they want in their own private business.

Not good for business? Let's be honest it would bring down the league, destroy the whole thing, because when private organisations change their rules on a whim it eradicates all confidence. You were still right though...they *can* break their own rules.....



jrjones9933
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26 Sep 2017, 2:48 pm

It was a false analogy, anyway.


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Aristophanes
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26 Sep 2017, 3:12 pm

Chichikov wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
^^They're a private league, they're allowed to make and break their own rules.

Exactly. Let's say it's the Superbowl and one team is 5 points behind with seconds on the clock and they get a field goal, that team can be given 6 points for the field goal to win. NFL rules and regulations 11-1-2 (b) says that a field goal is worth three points, but they're a private league, they're allowed to break their own rules.

It's true, they could. They could flat out predetermine the winner of a contest if they wanted to. Probably not good for business (although WWF would disagree), but it's well within their rights to do what they want in their own private business.

Not good for business? Let's be honest it would bring down the league, destroy the whole thing, because when private organisations change their rules on a whim it eradicates all confidence. You were still right though...they *can* break their own rules.....

The comment was understatement.