The Czech Republic has elected a far-right lunatic.

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DarthMetaKnight
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28 Jan 2018, 6:22 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42832720

I think that we - the left - need to feel partly responsible for this.

The left needs to rely on principles instead of party loyalty. The left needs to rely on logic instead of buzzwords and slogans.

The world doesn't need any more Donald Trumps.


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JohnPowell
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28 Jan 2018, 6:28 pm

How does this article show he is a "far-right lunatic"? People have had enough of forced mass immigration and multiculturalism.


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DarthMetaKnight
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28 Jan 2018, 6:49 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
How does this article show he is a "far-right lunatic"?


- He rooted for Donald Trump.
- He openly and proudly has ties to Putin.
- He claims that Islam is "anti-civilisation", which is hysterical nonsense.
- He has compared Muslims (all Muslims) to Nazis. This might be projection.
- He believes that Islamic immigration is an "invasion". This is a classic piece of emotionally manipulative language that the far-right loves to use.

Quote:
People have had enough of forced mass immigration and multiculturalism.


Forced immigration?
This immigration wasn't forced. We didn't kidnap Muslims and force them into the West. They came by choice.

The West was multicultural long before Middle Eastern immigration became common.


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JohnPowell
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29 Jan 2018, 6:12 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
How does this article show he is a "far-right lunatic"?


- He rooted for Donald Trump.
- He openly and proudly has ties to Putin.
- He claims that Islam is "anti-civilisation", which is hysterical nonsense.
- He has compared Muslims (all Muslims) to Nazis. This might be projection.
- He believes that Islamic immigration is an "invasion". This is a classic piece of emotionally manipulative language that the far-right loves to use.

Quote:
People have had enough of forced mass immigration and multiculturalism.


Forced immigration?
This immigration wasn't forced. We didn't kidnap Muslims and force them into the West. They came by choice.

The West was multicultural long before Middle Eastern immigration became common.


And? I rooted for him because the alternative was much worse.
Here we go again with Russia. Even if he has ties to Putin, so what?
Yeah that is hysterical nonsense if he said those exact words about Islam as a whole.
Did he?
It kind of is an invasion when you have a million people flooding in at once.

It has been forced upon us by our own politicians. No, the West has never been multicultural like this especially where non Europeans are the majority in London and some areas could easily jusy be in Islamabad.


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DarthMetaKnight
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29 Jan 2018, 6:57 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
And? I rooted for him because the alternative was much worse.


I don't like Clinton either, but she's not as bad as Trump.

Clinton is a greedy warmonger, but she wouldn't put the world at risk of a nuclear war.

Quote:
Here we go again with Russia.


Unlike Donald Trump, Miloš Zeman openly has ties to Putin. He has even dismissed the annexation of Crimea as though it's not a big deal.

Quote:
Even if he has ties to Putin, so what?


Putin is a brutal theocratic dictator.

Quote:
Yeah that is hysterical nonsense if he said those exact words about Islam as a whole.
Did he?


Yes.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145596

Quote:
It kind of is an invasion when you have a million people flooding in at once.


... and yet European society hasn't been significantly impacted by this "invasion".

Calling this an "invasion" is pure hysteria.

Quote:
It has been forced upon us by our own politicians. No, the West has never been multicultural like this especially where non Europeans are the majority in London and some areas could easily jusy be in Islamabad.


Europe has always been multicultural because "European culture" is actually a wide range of cultures.

Ancient Rome was multicultural and it existed for centuries. Additionally, France was multicultural before modern Middle Eastern immigration became common.

The Jews and the Basque people are separate cultural groups. They have been integrated for the most part. Integration works.


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JohnPowell
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30 Jan 2018, 12:24 pm

She is far far worse. Um, that's exactly what she would have done, but not with a phony threat like North Korea. She could have lead us to direct conflict with Russia. Obama also nearly caused serious conflict with nuclear Pakistan when he went in to get "Bin Laden".

Maybe he just knows what he's talking about regarding that 'annexation'.

Putin is an improvement on the past.

Could be taken a bit out of context.

Society has been transformed in big cities. Child grooming gangs haven't helped either.

No it hasn't always been multicultural like this. The UK has never had mass immigration close to this scale.


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DarthMetaKnight
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30 Jan 2018, 2:14 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
She is far far worse. Um, that's exactly what she would have done, but not with a phony threat like North Korea. She could have lead us to direct conflict with Russia. Obama also nearly caused serious conflict with nuclear Pakistan when he went in to get "Bin Laden".

Maybe he just knows what he's talking about regarding that 'annexation'.

Putin is an improvement on the past.

Could be taken a bit out of context.

Society has been transformed in big cities. Child grooming gangs haven't helped either.

No it hasn't always been multicultural like this. The UK has never had mass immigration close to this scale.


Putin is an improvement on the past? How so?

Russia has had plenty of bad leaders in the past, but most of them did at least a few good things. Boris Yeltsin was a capitalist, but at least he respected democracy. The Soviets were authoritarians, but at least they modernised Russia. What good has Putin done? I can't think of anything.

Putin is easily the worst Russian leader since Tsar Nicholas II.

The people of England really need to stop calling the refugees "invaders". The British should know what an actual invasion looks like, since they were invaded by the Normans and the Vikings in the past. Those were actual invasions.


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JohnPowell
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31 Jan 2018, 5:37 pm

Are you serious? The Soviets starved millions and millions of people to death, intentionally. Lenin and Trotsky liqudated people who weren't on there political spectrum. People were put in gulags. The population was brainwashed. Putin's own parents nearly starved to death. The Soviets would compete with the US as to who could do the worst thing pretty much. Putin is no angel but he is smart. One good thing he did was save Syria. Not cause he cares about the people but because of geopolitics.

People need to stop blaming the immigrants for coming here and blame the government.


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31 Jan 2018, 9:20 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Are you serious? The Soviets starved millions and millions of people to death, intentionally. Lenin and Trotsky liqudated people who weren't on there political spectrum. People were put in gulags. The population was brainwashed. Putin's own parents nearly starved to death. The Soviets would compete with the US as to who could do the worst thing pretty much. Putin is no angel but he is smart. One good thing he did was save Syria. Not cause he cares about the people but because of geopolitics.

People need to stop blaming the immigrants for coming here and blame the government.


I know Lenin had put his dark side on display when it came to loss of human life, but the only black mark against Trotsky I could think of was when he ordered that the participants in a sailor's demonstration be shot.
By the way, Putin has plenty of blood on his hands when it comes to suppressing political opponents.


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DarthMetaKnight
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01 Feb 2018, 7:22 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Are you serious? The Soviets starved millions and millions of people to death, intentionally. Lenin and Trotsky liqudated people who weren't on there political spectrum. People were put in gulags.


So? This also happened in Tsarist Russia. Have you ever heard of Oprichnina? Under Ivan the Terrible, people were tortured to death in a dungeon which was made to resemble Hell.

Here's the difference between Soviet Russia and Tsarist Russia. In Tsarist Russia, the poor were serfs. In Soviet Russia, the poor were socialist workers. Being a socialist worker isn't a walk in the park, but it is certainly better than being a feudal serf.

It's easy to understand why the Russians sided with Lenin when you read about how they suffered under Tsar Nicolas. Tsar Nicolas was a racist piece of crap who tried to perpetuate the horrifying system of serfdom. The bastard got what he deserved.

Quote:
The population was brainwashed.


Every country engages in brainwashing.

In every country, the government says "Our country is the greatest! All those other countries are full of weirdos who don't act, dress, eat or speak in the right way!" The Soviet Union was not unique in this respect. All patriotism is delusional, virulent and cancerous.

Quote:
Putin's own parents nearly starved to death.


Yeah. That sucks. They should have actually starved to death. :lol:

Quote:
The Soviets would compete with the US as to who could do the worst thing pretty much. Putin is no angel but he is smart.


I agree that Putin is intelligent. This does not make him any less of a bastard.

The Soviets were even smarter though. They invented space travel.

Quote:
One good thing he did was save Syria. Not cause he cares about the people but because of geopolitics.


Exactly

Quote:
People need to stop blaming the immigrants for coming here and blame the government.


I agree. Western governments need to stop funding Middle Eastern dictators.

I don't think that allowing immigration is bad though.


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EzraS
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01 Feb 2018, 7:45 pm

I don't understand the left being so pro Islam when it is so fundamental conservative and anti liberal.



DarthMetaKnight
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01 Feb 2018, 8:26 pm

EzraS wrote:
I don't understand the left being so pro Islam when it is so fundamental conservative and anti liberal.


I used to be really anti-Islam. Then I spent some time on a conservative website. That changed all that.

They were constantly saying "Nuke em' till the sand glows!" I thought that they were just being edgy, so I made a joke about a recent shooting that happed in Canada. They suddenly got mad at me.

In other words, the political right wing is full of people who think that it is okay to kill hundreds of Muslims in order to save one non-Muslim Westerner. I'm not even talking about the far-right. Mainstream conservatives often have these sorts of vile opinions.

Hypocrisy is another major factor. A lot of Christian conservatives hate Muslims who behave exactly like Christian conservatives. Of course, these Christian conservatives often don't have any respect for African Christians either.

Furthermore, I have been highly critical of Saudi Arabia in the past. That's where the real Islamic extremists live. How come American conservatives never criticize Saudi Arabia?


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01 Feb 2018, 8:53 pm

EzraS wrote:
I don't understand the left being so pro Islam when it is so fundamental conservative and anti liberal.

I'm not exactly left but I think it's a misconception that the left is "pro Islam". It's just that the left takes a more pragmatic approach to issues while the right takes a more simplistic approach to issues.

Someone on the left might say "If this person is muslim but not bothering anyone, they are fine with me," while a person on the right might say "It's too much of a risk to spend time and resources trying to sort the "bad" muslims from the "good" muslims, so I am just going to call them all bad and be done with it."



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01 Feb 2018, 8:56 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
- He rooted for Donald Trump.
- He openly and proudly has ties to Putin.
- He claims that Islam is "anti-civilisation", which is hysterical nonsense.
- He has compared Muslims (all Muslims) to Nazis. This might be projection.
- He believes that Islamic immigration is an "invasion". This is a classic piece of emotionally manipulative language that the far-right loves to use.


Drop the first two and I'm fine with the others.

I don't believe in accepting refugees unless they are from a similar culture to yours and you are going to send them home within a certain time period or as soon as practical, whichever is shorter.

When someone comes into your country, they should come there because they want to become part of your culture, not try to impose their culture on you.



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01 Feb 2018, 9:02 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
She is far far worse. Um, that's exactly what she would have done, but not with a phony threat like North Korea. She could have lead us to direct conflict with Russia. Obama also nearly caused serious conflict with nuclear Pakistan when he went in to get "Bin Laden".

Maybe he just knows what he's talking about regarding that 'annexation'.

Putin is an improvement on the past.

Could be taken a bit out of context.

Society has been transformed in big cities. Child grooming gangs haven't helped either.

No it hasn't always been multicultural like this. The UK has never had mass immigration close to this scale.


Putin is an improvement on the past? How so?

Russia has had plenty of bad leaders in the past, but most of them did at least a few good things. Boris Yeltsin was a capitalist, but at least he respected democracy. The Soviets were authoritarians, but at least they modernised Russia. What good has Putin done? I can't think of anything.

Putin is easily the worst Russian leader since Tsar Nicholas II.

The people of England really need to stop calling the refugees "invaders". The British should know what an actual invasion looks like, since they were invaded by the Normans and the Vikings in the past. Those were actual invasions.


I didn't think you could get glasses that are that rose-colored.

It would be very hard to be worse than Stalin. Putin, for all his faults, has not murdered hundreds of thousands or even millions of people like Stalin did.



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01 Feb 2018, 9:27 pm

Darth-
Actually, serfdom had come to an end in Russia back in the 19th century, by Nicholas' grandfather, who was a social reformer (he was unfortunately assassinated by anarchists before he could completely change his country). But needless to say, the autocratic power of the Russian monarchy, and it's obvious preference for the rich, never changed.


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