Optical illusion investigated for use in ASD diagnosis

Page 1 of 2 [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

TimS1980
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 194
Location: Melbourne, Australia

10 Mar 2018, 8:36 pm

The Age has an article about an optical illusion, being investigated as a possible screening/diagnosis tool for Autism. It describes a study by Professor David Burr (published in eLife).

Quote:
Watch the dots spin for a moment. Nearly everyone sees a spinning hollow cylinder, black on one side and white on the other, randomly changing direction.
But not everyone’s brain is processing the image in the same way.
Of course, there is no cylinder per se – just 300 dots moving from side to side, switching from black to white.
The typical brain takes in the big picture, ignoring the details.
But to the brains of people with high levels of attention to detail, it’s just dots.



SabbraCadabra
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,821
Location: Michigan

10 Mar 2018, 11:02 pm

I definitely see the cylinder, though I have to concentrate pretty hard to see it as the black dots in front and the white in back. I can see that they made some of the black dots overlap the white ones, but most of them do not. It kind of messes with my sensories a little bit.

The human mind is also pre-conditioned to see brighter things as closer, and darker things as further away. Most 2D videogames use this to give their art a better sense of depth.


_________________
I'll brave the storm to come, for it surely looks like rain...


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

11 Mar 2018, 4:47 am

I like the idea of subconcious tests for autism traits (like pupil tracking in this experiment) – because they do not rely on functioning level or lists of deficits. This way, I think, the science gets closer to investigating some fundamental perception differences that I believe to lay behind the ASD – apart from a list of dys-somethings that often co-ocur but are something separate.

I am able to see the cylinder but when I try, I at once spot the points that don't fit that picture. My main picture is moving constellations of points.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


VIDEODROME
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,691

11 Mar 2018, 5:10 am

My interpretation changes while I look at it. I can sort of see it as a 3D tube, but also as dots moving across eachother in 2D space. I'm borderline on Aspergers though so maybe that's why.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

11 Mar 2018, 5:25 am

It looks like a big rusty corroded pipe (that's been on the sea bottom for ten years) rotating around to me.

I can "switch gears" and see it as dots as well, but my mind "wants" to see it as the cylinder so that how I gravitate to seeing it because that's more aesthetically pleasing.



Ichinin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,653
Location: A cold place with lots of blondes.

11 Mar 2018, 1:34 pm

Quote:
But to the brains of people with high levels of attention to detail, it’s just dots.


One alternative to this theory is that it is complete bullocks. I can focus and see both dots and a cylinder.

But fine, lets throw eggs on the wall and if they form a pattern - wazaaaahh - the person throwing it is Autistic :roll:

What a dimwit!


_________________
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" (Carl Sagan)


fluffysaurus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,723
Location: England

11 Mar 2018, 2:01 pm

First I saw the dots, then I saw the cylinder (misshapen), but I still saw the dots, including the pink one which was very distracting. Then the direction changed with the black ones to the front, which made the dots rather than the cylinder the dominating focus. Interesting article overall but why is everything about diagnosing people early?



underwater
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,904
Location: Hibernating

11 Mar 2018, 2:23 pm

I saw both cylinder and dots. Other things that influence this is training in mathematics and 3d visualisation.

This is a rubbish test. It doesn't prove anything.


_________________
I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.


Mudboy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,441
Location: Hiding in plain sight

11 Mar 2018, 2:35 pm

underwater wrote:
I saw both cylinder and dots. Other things that influence this is training in mathematics and 3d visualisation.

This is a rubbish test. It doesn't prove anything.
:heart:


_________________
When I lose an obsession, I feel lost until I find another.
Aspie score: 155 of 200
NT score: 49 of 200


SabbraCadabra
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,821
Location: Michigan

11 Mar 2018, 5:54 pm

Ichinin wrote:
One alternative to this theory is that it is complete bullocks. I can focus and see both dots and a cylinder.

If you read the article, it isn't about what we think we perceive, it's how our pupils react when we focus on the image.

Kind of like the Voight-Kampff test, Leon 8)


_________________
I'll brave the storm to come, for it surely looks like rain...


Kiriae
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,349
Location: Kraków, Poland

12 Mar 2018, 2:46 pm

At first I didn't see a cylinder - I was focusing on the middle of picture and seen 2 "rivers" - white going one way, black another way. I could decide which "river" is in front by focusing on either black or white dots. So I would probably "pass" the test - my pupils must have react to the color of dots I was currently focusing at.

After looking at the picture for a while I found the cylinder (I think so at least - by cylinder you mean dots moving in rounds, right?), with either white or black dots in the front of my choice. The cylinder seems to also be changing direction according to my will - I can do the same thing with the spinning dancer illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_Dancer .

Then I looked away and looked at the picture again. Now my focus stopped at the edge first and I could suddenly see dots bouncing off it and changing colors as they do. It was pretty overwhelming - I tried to track all of them and 3 dots going in the middle pissed me off - the gif is ending before they hit the edge!

Then I started playing by switching my focus between bouncing, rivers and the cylinder changing direction as I want it to.

In both cases "cylinder" wasn't what I could see at first, but I found it eventually and could control it then, by choosing which dots to focus on. :lol:

BTW. If people literally see "a spinning hollow cylinder, black on one side and white on the other, randomly changing direction" they must be nuts... It can't be literal, can it? The cylinder is gray with black dots on one side and white on the other at best.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

13 Mar 2018, 3:46 am

Kiriae wrote:
At first I didn't see a cylinder - I was focusing on the middle of picture and seen 2 "rivers" - white going one way, black another way. I could decide which "river" is in front by focusing on either black or white dots. So I would probably "pass" the test - my pupils must have react to the color of dots I was currently focusing at.

After looking at the picture for a while I found the cylinder (I think so at least - by cylinder you mean dots moving in rounds, right?), with either white or black dots in the front of my choice. The cylinder seems to also be changing direction according to my will - I can do the same thing with the spinning dancer illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_Dancer .

Then I looked away and looked at the picture again. Now my focus stopped at the edge first and I could suddenly see dots bouncing off it and changing colors as they do. It was pretty overwhelming - I tried to track all of them and 3 dots going in the middle pissed me off - the gif is ending before they hit the edge!

Then I started playing by switching my focus between bouncing, rivers and the cylinder changing direction as I want it to.

In both cases "cylinder" wasn't what I could see at first, but I found it eventually and could control it then, by choosing which dots to focus on. :lol:

BTW. If people literally see "a spinning hollow cylinder, black on one side and white on the other, randomly changing direction" they must be nuts... It can't be literal, can it? The cylinder is gray with black dots on one side and white on the other at best.


The fact that the OP mentioned the word cylinder might have been a "spoiler", but...

To me it just jumps out as being a slowly turning cylinder. I did not notice it change direction. The close side moved right to left always. The dots give the cylinder texture (crusty and rusty). The white dots look like light glinting off a wet surface. So it looks like a rusty iron pipe just pulled up out of the ocean. You can switch gears and see it as dots moving majestically in a choreographed ballet as well. But NOT seeing the cylinder takes work.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

13 Mar 2018, 10:20 am

I saw what looked like two penguins having sex.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,317
Location: Pacific Northwest

13 Mar 2018, 10:27 am

I saw a bunch of dots moving and the red dot staying in the middle not moving and then it starts again. I can also see it spinning and then it just starts over, it doesn't change direction.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,317
Location: Pacific Northwest

13 Mar 2018, 10:31 am

I started seeing the cylinder after it had been mentioned. I can finally see the right picture after hearing about what you are supposed to be seeing and then my mind all of a sudden changes direction and I see it. I wonder what this could mean for the doctors?


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.


slave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Age: 113
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,420
Location: Dystopia Planetia

14 Mar 2018, 1:00 am

Ichinin wrote:
Quote:
But to the brains of people with high levels of attention to detail, it’s just dots.


One alternative to this theory is that it is complete bullocks. I can focus and see both dots and a cylinder.

But fine, lets throw eggs on the wall and if they form a pattern - wazaaaahh - the person throwing it is Autistic :roll:

What a dimwit!


I can focus and see both dots and a cylinder.......................ME 2!

i am skeptical about the study, al least at first glance