28 Oct 2018, 3:19 pm
28 Oct 2018, 4:53 pm
Meistersinger wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
B19 wrote:
The Trump cultists will say the arrest is a liberal hoax, because that fits their belief system and they seem trapped inside it.
I despair for the USA in a very serious way now. The cult members routinely think what Trump tells and wants them to, believe whatever he wants them to believe, do what he wants them to do, behave as he wants them to behave, say what he wants them to say, hate who he tells them to hate, deny what he tells them to deny. He is their cult leader, their guru who can say and do no wrong, and he has worked diligently to establish this mindset by manipulation of their emotions and limited critical faculties. The one time that Trump wasn't lying was when he said that he loves the uneducated, though it is a limited love, one based on the fact that they believe anything he says and act on the divisions he strives to whip up. As people, I think he has nothing but contempt for their gullibity, because I believe he merely uses them as puppets and has no genuine regard for them as people.
It's all about Trump and his ambitions to dominate, and it always has been. Trump has clear and obvious psychopathic features that his followers are either unable to see or wilfully blind toward.
He manifests more psychopathic features at this emergent demagogue stage than Hitler did at the same stage. That should warn people capable of seeing the big picture. Unfortunately his devoted base can't see it, are not capable of seeing it, and are unwitting pawns in a terrible game that is not a harmless game of political chess.
I despair for you all.
I despair for the USA in a very serious way now. The cult members routinely think what Trump tells and wants them to, believe whatever he wants them to believe, do what he wants them to do, behave as he wants them to behave, say what he wants them to say, hate who he tells them to hate, deny what he tells them to deny. He is their cult leader, their guru who can say and do no wrong, and he has worked diligently to establish this mindset by manipulation of their emotions and limited critical faculties. The one time that Trump wasn't lying was when he said that he loves the uneducated, though it is a limited love, one based on the fact that they believe anything he says and act on the divisions he strives to whip up. As people, I think he has nothing but contempt for their gullibity, because I believe he merely uses them as puppets and has no genuine regard for them as people.
It's all about Trump and his ambitions to dominate, and it always has been. Trump has clear and obvious psychopathic features that his followers are either unable to see or wilfully blind toward.
He manifests more psychopathic features at this emergent demagogue stage than Hitler did at the same stage. That should warn people capable of seeing the big picture. Unfortunately his devoted base can't see it, are not capable of seeing it, and are unwitting pawns in a terrible game that is not a harmless game of political chess.
I despair for you all.
I also despair for his opponents. Even if this was carried out by a Trump lunatic it doesn't mean Trump made him do it. There are Democrats openly calling for people to attack Republicans. The divides are getting insane and comparing Trump to Hitler is part of the problem. The Democrats are offering no solutions just creating more divides and getting hysterical about Russia. No one seemed to have a problem when Obama and Clinton were dropping real bombs on civilians across the world. The media was silent and liberals nodded along because their side was doing it. People should reject both parties and drop this phony left vs right and all the madness that goes with it.
Now I know central PA is in for a bad winter, with snow being as*hole deep! JohnPowell actually said some I agree with!
Thank you? I think...
And wrap up warm
28 Oct 2018, 5:08 pm
Actually to Ezra's point a lot of immigration could increase pressure to create cheap housing and provide a labor supply, the capital interests in property development are already in place here.
_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos
28 Oct 2018, 5:18 pm
28 Oct 2018, 5:41 pm
28 Oct 2018, 7:43 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,800
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
28 Oct 2018, 8:33 pm
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As we are a nation of immigrants who considers altruism to be a virtue, we do have a responsibility to help immigrants fleeing from danger.
Of course most Trump supporters aren't Alt Right. But Trump has always appealed to the extreme to the point of exaggerating their numbers. That's why when running for office he had quoted racist sites that claimed most white murder victims are killed by blacks (they're not), or why he had lifted an Antisemitic internet meme of a greedy, compromised Hilary Clinton alongside a Jewish Star of David (no, it wasn't a marshal's badge).
Of course most Trump supporters aren't Alt Right. But Trump has always appealed to the extreme to the point of exaggerating their numbers. That's why when running for office he had quoted racist sites that claimed most white murder victims are killed by blacks (they're not), or why he had lifted an Antisemitic internet meme of a greedy, compromised Hilary Clinton alongside a Jewish Star of David (no, it wasn't a marshal's badge).
I disagree. I think a majority of Americans have national pride and don't like dealing with foreigners. That includes black americans and even believe it or not Hispanic ones as well.
Just as northerners and the west coast looks down on southerners as redneck hicks, people from some Spanish speaking countries feel the same way about other Spanish speaking countries.
Nobody was happy about the Irish pouring in to get away from the potato famine either. They were utterly despised by both white and black americans.
Bill Clinton was very pro immigration control and had strong words about fortifying our southern boarder.
I don't think this open arms idealism truly exists within the majority of humanity, even if they profess otherwise.
As for the other stuff you're talking about, I have to see it or hear in from the source in full context, before I can make a determination.
fwiw I personally couldn't care less who moves in. I'm used to a multiracial environment and even a multiracial family.
While nativism is back again (it comes in waves), that hardly means it's right. And I disagree that most Americans are against immigration. If anything, you're proving my argument about prejudice among some Trump voters, as they're the ones doing most of the screaming about immigration.
By the way, I am a proud American, and I am delighted that foreigners still want to join our nation.
Liberals can't say anything negative about illegal imagination, because their own kind would reject them brand them as racists.
Bill Clinton had plenty to say against illegal immigration, tougher immigration laws and fortifying the border, but that was then I guess.
Sly has the best point of all. Homelessness is increasing exponentially. There are thousands of Americans living in tents all over the place now. This isn't a good time for tens of thousands of new people pouring in here.
If illegal immigrants were taking migrant farm work from Americans you'd have a point, but they're not. That's hard, back breaking work almost no Americans will do because the pay is so terrible. Only illegals are willing to do that sort of work. As for other industries where people are losing their jobs, it has absolutely nothing to do with legal or illegal immigration, but with mechanization, and outsourcing by American business people who are too cheap to pay American workers not just a living wage, but one in which American workers can thrive.
28 Oct 2018, 8:44 pm
28 Oct 2018, 9:01 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
If illegal immigrants were taking migrant farm work from Americans you'd have a point, but they're not. That's hard, back breaking work almost no Americans will do because the pay is so terrible. Only illegals are willing to do that sort of work. As for other industries where people are losing their jobs, it has absolutely nothing to do with legal or illegal immigration, but with mechanization, and outsourcing by American business people who are too cheap to pay American workers not just a living wage, but one in which American workers can thrive.
That's a right wing talking point.
AMAZED to see you say it.
Left wing groups say, "Raise the minimum wage" and Americans will do that work.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,800
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
28 Oct 2018, 9:05 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If illegal immigrants were taking migrant farm work from Americans you'd have a point, but they're not. That's hard, back breaking work almost no Americans will do because the pay is so terrible. Only illegals are willing to do that sort of work. As for other industries where people are losing their jobs, it has absolutely nothing to do with legal or illegal immigration, but with mechanization, and outsourcing by American business people who are too cheap to pay American workers not just a living wage, but one in which American workers can thrive.
That's the right wing talking point.
AMAZED to see you say it.
The left wing groups say, "Raise the minimum wage" and Americans will do that work.
Oh, I absolutely agree, raise the minimum wage, not necessarily because Americans will work like they're on meth, but because they'll have more buying power to further grow the economy. But if past history is any indication, few Americans are going to do migrant farm worker labor.
28 Oct 2018, 10:30 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If illegal immigrants were taking migrant farm work from Americans you'd have a point, but they're not. That's hard, back breaking work almost no Americans will do because the pay is so terrible. Only illegals are willing to do that sort of work. As for other industries where people are losing their jobs, it has absolutely nothing to do with legal or illegal immigration, but with mechanization, and outsourcing by American business people who are too cheap to pay American workers not just a living wage, but one in which American workers can thrive.
That's the right wing talking point.
AMAZED to see you say it.
The left wing groups say, "Raise the minimum wage" and Americans will do that work.
Oh, I absolutely agree, raise the minimum wage, not necessarily because Americans will work like they're on meth, but because they'll have more buying power to further grow the economy. But if past history is any indication, few Americans are going to do migrant farm worker labor.
Why wouldn't destiute Americans do farm work? They certainly used to be the majority based on photos of displaced farm workers during the dust bowl. I think what it comes down to is why pay an indigent American a dollar when you can pay an illegal 50 cents.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,800
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Oct 2018, 12:18 am
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If illegal immigrants were taking migrant farm work from Americans you'd have a point, but they're not. That's hard, back breaking work almost no Americans will do because the pay is so terrible. Only illegals are willing to do that sort of work. As for other industries where people are losing their jobs, it has absolutely nothing to do with legal or illegal immigration, but with mechanization, and outsourcing by American business people who are too cheap to pay American workers not just a living wage, but one in which American workers can thrive.
That's the right wing talking point.
AMAZED to see you say it.
The left wing groups say, "Raise the minimum wage" and Americans will do that work.
Oh, I absolutely agree, raise the minimum wage, not necessarily because Americans will work like they're on meth, but because they'll have more buying power to further grow the economy. But if past history is any indication, few Americans are going to do migrant farm worker labor.
Why wouldn't destiute Americans do farm work? They certainly used to be the majority based on photos of displaced farm workers during the dust bowl. I think what it comes down to is why pay an indigent American a dollar when you can pay an illegal 50 cents.
Right now, with the possibility of crops being left out in the fields to rot, farmers would be more than happy to have anyone come to work for them. But no one is, as Mexican migrant workers are not crossing the border to work as they once had. That isn't just my opinion, it's fact.
29 Oct 2018, 12:23 am
29 Oct 2018, 12:59 am
29 Oct 2018, 1:07 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,800
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Oct 2018, 3:16 am
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