29 Oct 2018, 4:00 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If illegal immigrants were taking migrant farm work from Americans you'd have a point, but they're not. That's hard, back breaking work almost no Americans will do because the pay is so terrible. Only illegals are willing to do that sort of work. As for other industries where people are losing their jobs, it has absolutely nothing to do with legal or illegal immigration, but with mechanization, and outsourcing by American business people who are too cheap to pay American workers not just a living wage, but one in which American workers can thrive.
That's the right wing talking point.
AMAZED to see you say it.
The left wing groups say, "Raise the minimum wage" and Americans will do that work.
Oh, I absolutely agree, raise the minimum wage, not necessarily because Americans will work like they're on meth, but because they'll have more buying power to further grow the economy. But if past history is any indication, few Americans are going to do migrant farm worker labor.
Why wouldn't destiute Americans do farm work? They certainly used to be the majority based on photos of displaced farm workers during the dust bowl. I think what it comes down to is why pay an indigent American a dollar when you can pay an illegal 50 cents.
Right now, with the possibility of crops being left out in the fields to rot, farmers would be more than happy to have anyone come to work for them. But no one is, as Mexican migrant workers are not crossing the border to work as they once had. That isn't just my opinion, it's fact.
If they refuse to pay min wage or more then they deserve to go under.
Obama’s Government paid farmers to have crops rot
29 Oct 2018, 4:05 am
29 Oct 2018, 4:07 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As we are a nation of immigrants who considers altruism to be a virtue, we do have a responsibility to help immigrants fleeing from danger.
Of course most Trump supporters aren't Alt Right. But Trump has always appealed to the extreme to the point of exaggerating their numbers. That's why when running for office he had quoted racist sites that claimed most white murder victims are killed by blacks (they're not), or why he had lifted an Antisemitic internet meme of a greedy, compromised Hilary Clinton alongside a Jewish Star of David (no, it wasn't a marshal's badge).
Of course most Trump supporters aren't Alt Right. But Trump has always appealed to the extreme to the point of exaggerating their numbers. That's why when running for office he had quoted racist sites that claimed most white murder victims are killed by blacks (they're not), or why he had lifted an Antisemitic internet meme of a greedy, compromised Hilary Clinton alongside a Jewish Star of David (no, it wasn't a marshal's badge).
I disagree. I think a majority of Americans have national pride and don't like dealing with foreigners. That includes black americans and even believe it or not Hispanic ones as well.
Just as northerners and the west coast looks down on southerners as redneck hicks, people from some Spanish speaking countries feel the same way about other Spanish speaking countries.
Nobody was happy about the Irish pouring in to get away from the potato famine either. They were utterly despised by both white and black americans.
Bill Clinton was very pro immigration control and had strong words about fortifying our southern boarder.
I don't think this open arms idealism truly exists within the majority of humanity, even if they profess otherwise.
As for the other stuff you're talking about, I have to see it or hear in from the source in full context, before I can make a determination.
fwiw I personally couldn't care less who moves in. I'm used to a multiracial environment and even a multiracial family.
While nativism is back again (it comes in waves), that hardly means it's right. And I disagree that most Americans are against immigration. If anything, you're proving my argument about prejudice among some Trump voters, as they're the ones doing most of the screaming about immigration.
By the way, I am a proud American, and I am delighted that foreigners still want to join our nation.
Liberals can't say anything negative about illegal imagination, because their own kind would reject them brand them as racists.
Bill Clinton had plenty to say against illegal immigration, tougher immigration laws and fortifying the border, but that was then I guess.
Sly has the best point of all. Homelessness is increasing exponentially. There are thousands of Americans living in tents all over the place now. This isn't a good time for tens of thousands of new people pouring in here.
If illegal immigrants were taking migrant farm work from Americans you'd have a point, but they're not. That's hard, back breaking work almost no Americans will do because the pay is so terrible. Only illegals are willing to do that sort of work. As for other industries where people are losing their jobs, it has absolutely nothing to do with legal or illegal immigration, but with mechanization, and outsourcing by American business people who are too cheap to pay American workers not just a living wage, but one in which American workers can thrive.
Why do you and your party hate poor Americans so much?
You just see all the poor as lazy like conservatives. Most poor Americans would work that wor if the farms didn’t have illegals to do it for half the money under the table.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Oct 2018, 4:13 am
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As we are a nation of immigrants who considers altruism to be a virtue, we do have a responsibility to help immigrants fleeing from danger.
Of course most Trump supporters aren't Alt Right. But Trump has always appealed to the extreme to the point of exaggerating their numbers. That's why when running for office he had quoted racist sites that claimed most white murder victims are killed by blacks (they're not), or why he had lifted an Antisemitic internet meme of a greedy, compromised Hilary Clinton alongside a Jewish Star of David (no, it wasn't a marshal's badge).
Of course most Trump supporters aren't Alt Right. But Trump has always appealed to the extreme to the point of exaggerating their numbers. That's why when running for office he had quoted racist sites that claimed most white murder victims are killed by blacks (they're not), or why he had lifted an Antisemitic internet meme of a greedy, compromised Hilary Clinton alongside a Jewish Star of David (no, it wasn't a marshal's badge).
I disagree. I think a majority of Americans have national pride and don't like dealing with foreigners. That includes black americans and even believe it or not Hispanic ones as well.
Just as northerners and the west coast looks down on southerners as redneck hicks, people from some Spanish speaking countries feel the same way about other Spanish speaking countries.
Nobody was happy about the Irish pouring in to get away from the potato famine either. They were utterly despised by both white and black americans.
Bill Clinton was very pro immigration control and had strong words about fortifying our southern boarder.
I don't think this open arms idealism truly exists within the majority of humanity, even if they profess otherwise.
As for the other stuff you're talking about, I have to see it or hear in from the source in full context, before I can make a determination.
fwiw I personally couldn't care less who moves in. I'm used to a multiracial environment and even a multiracial family.
While nativism is back again (it comes in waves), that hardly means it's right. And I disagree that most Americans are against immigration. If anything, you're proving my argument about prejudice among some Trump voters, as they're the ones doing most of the screaming about immigration.
By the way, I am a proud American, and I am delighted that foreigners still want to join our nation.
Liberals can't say anything negative about illegal imagination, because their own kind would reject them brand them as racists.
Bill Clinton had plenty to say against illegal immigration, tougher immigration laws and fortifying the border, but that was then I guess.
Sly has the best point of all. Homelessness is increasing exponentially. There are thousands of Americans living in tents all over the place now. This isn't a good time for tens of thousands of new people pouring in here.
If illegal immigrants were taking migrant farm work from Americans you'd have a point, but they're not. That's hard, back breaking work almost no Americans will do because the pay is so terrible. Only illegals are willing to do that sort of work. As for other industries where people are losing their jobs, it has absolutely nothing to do with legal or illegal immigration, but with mechanization, and outsourcing by American business people who are too cheap to pay American workers not just a living wage, but one in which American workers can thrive.
Why do you and your party hate poor Americans so much?
You just see all the poor as lazy like conservatives. Most poor Americans would work that wor if the farms didn’t have illegals to do it for half the money under the table.
I do no such thing. My wife and I are so poor we don't have a pot to piss in. Reread my post and you'll see I put the blame on business elites, not poor and working people.
As for your other post: Obama was hardly the first President to pay farmers not to bring their crops to market.
29 Oct 2018, 4:27 am
29 Oct 2018, 4:39 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Oct 2018, 5:12 am
29 Oct 2018, 5:31 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
There's farm work, then there's working in the fields for long, strenuous hours with little payment. It's not a matter of Americans being lazy. But if Americans want to do that sort of work (Jack Kerouac had), they'll find themselves literally working for slave wages.
Wow, you're sounding like a Republican now.
We need illegal aliens, because who will pick the lettuce, argued George Bush's Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff.
Americans won't work for such low pay.
29 Oct 2018, 6:44 am
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There's farm work, then there's working in the fields for long, strenuous hours with little payment. It's not a matter of Americans being lazy. But if Americans want to do that sort of work (Jack Kerouac had), they'll find themselves literally working for slave wages.
Wow, you're sounding like a Republican now.
We need illegal aliens, because who will pick the lettuce, argued George Bush's Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff.
Americans won't work for such low pay.
Looks like the roles have reversed in comparison to Bush and Ciinton.
29 Oct 2018, 9:51 am
29 Oct 2018, 10:15 am
29 Oct 2018, 10:49 am
29 Oct 2018, 11:06 am
29 Oct 2018, 11:13 am
29 Oct 2018, 11:19 am
29 Oct 2018, 11:27 am
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