16 year old jailed for voilent autistic meltdown

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ASPartOfMe
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19 Feb 2019, 2:32 am

They say their son needs to be in a psychiatric hospital. He went to jail instead.

Quote:
A danger to themselves or others. That’s the threshold set by Michigan law to put someone in a psychiatric hospital.

But many families with autistic children say meeting that definition doesn’t seem to be enough for their kids--and they don’t know what to do.

Douglas Odisho watched as his sixteen-year-old son, Damiean, got off the elevator outside Macomb County juvenile court.

Damiean is pale, with a round, pudgy face and bright red hair. He looks like a little kid.

His father says that really, he is.

“Sixteen-years-old with the mind of a 3-year-old, watches cartoons like a little kid, they’ve got him chained up like a criminal,” Douglas said. “It’s [expletive] pathetic.”

Damiean is on the autism spectrum, and has a host of other psychiatric and special needs diagnoses too. He’s on ten different medications.

But at this moment, he’s just a criminal. He was locked up at Macomb County’s Juvenile Justice Center, charged with resisting arrest.

It all started when his mom, Malinda Odisho, called police because Damiean was getting verbally and physically aggressive with her. He threatened to assault her, then went out in the garage and started smashing things. Then he left the house.

When officers arrived, Damiean was in the street several blocks away. It quickly turned into a struggle.

“At that point I wasn’t exactly worried because I knew this was something he had done in the past,” Malinda said. “Until I heard ‘I can’t breathe.’”

According to the police report, Damiean threatened the officers with a Snapple bottle. He kicked, scratched, and bit an officer. He got a broken finger in return.

Malinda has had to call the police before on Damiean. The police department in Warren, where they live, know he’s autistic and has issues with aggression. But even then, it usually ends in an altercation.

“He may sit there, or just kind of zone out into his own world, and [then] becomes a hands-on and each time there’s a fight,” Malinda said.

So when Malinda followed them to the hospital, she assumed they would do what they’d always done before--let him stay in the emergency room while she petitioned Macomb County Community Mental Health to admit him for psychiatric hospitalization.

But that’s not what happened this time.

They were going to only medically clear him, and then transport him for their processing at their station, and then transport him again to the JJC [Macomb County’s Juvenile Justice Center],” Malinda said.

So that’s how Damiean wound up in court.

We couldn’t tape the proceedings, but the juvenile court referee seemed sympathetic. He released Damiean back into his parents’ custody with a caveat: that the Odishos take him straight back to a hospital emergency room, and get him admitted to a hospital.

Malinda Odisho says they waited there through the weekend to see a psychiatrist.

“He looked over everything, agreed also that it is very hard to get a child with autism into any hospital for inpatient services, so he said he would be better off going home with me,” Malinda said. “So that’s what we did.”

This wasn’t the first time. For about a year, the Odishos have been trying to get Damiean hospitalized for his growing aggression. But despite repeated incidents—and in this case, a judge’s order—they keep getting stonewalled somewhere in the process.

“Once it seems like it’s a behavior, they deny,” Malinda said. “So if he’s aggressive, he’s violent, any of those types of things--denied.”

That can be true, says David Pankotai, CEO of Macomb County Community Mental Health. That’s the organization the Odishos use to get mental health services for Damiean through the state Medicaid program.

“Sometimes a hospital might look at a child who’s on the autism spectrum, and think that the issues are more related to environment and behavior as opposed to a psychiatric condition,” said Pankotai.

Pankotai says community mental health has to make inpatient hospitalization recommendations based on Michigan’s mental health code. In other words, a patient has to be a threat to themselves or others to authorize hospitalization.

“Typically we’re looking at people who are an immediate danger to themselves or others,” Pankotai said.

Pankotai wouldn’t comment specifically on Damiean Odisho’s case. So he couldn’t say why the Odishos keep getting denied inpatient treatment, despite a growing series of incidents suggesting Damiean is both a threat to himself and others.

But we do know this, it’s a common situation.

“I think it’s important for people to understand just how common aggression is in autism,” said Sarah Mohiuddin, clinical director of the multi-disciplinary autism program at the University of Michigan. "But children who have these concerns with aggression have limited access to outpatient providers, and even more limited access to inpatient hospitalization and psychiatric beds. And there are very few psychiatric emergency centers that really know what to do in terms of assessing these children when they are in a psychiatric emergency.”

Mohiuddin says there are often things families can do to handle the outward aggression and self-harming behaviors autistic children often exhibit. But they often lack the guidance and support services that allow them to do that effectively.

Mohiuddin recommends psychiatric hospitalization when “there is a concern that a child is going to significantly harm themselves or someone else.” She sometimes also does so when a child is on a cocktail of psychiatric medications that isn’t working, and it’s hard to tease out what’s effective and what’s not. In that case, Mohiuddin says, hospitalization for a “medication washout”—taking patients off their meds and re-introducing drugs slowly, might be required.

“Given the degree of someone’s aggression, sometimes that’s not safe to do as an outpatient,” Mohiuddin said.

But Mohiuddin says most health providers and clinical staff lack the specialized training to properly assess and deal with aggression in autism. So many just choose not to deal with it.

Given chronic understaffing problems in mental health facilities, an acute shortage of beds for all psychiatric patients in Michigan, and continued state cuts to community mental health programs, those in the autism community say it’s not a surprise that patients with aggression problems are often denied inpatient hospitalization.

My overall biggest fear is that law enforcement is going to hurt him more than just a broken finger,” she said.

Damiean was eventually ruled incompetent to stand trial, and the resisting arrest charge was dismissed.

But he turned 17 at the end of the January. That means his next brush with law enforcement won’t put him in juvenile detention. It will put him in the Macomb County Jail.


What it comes down to on Damian’s part of the spectrum as with the spectrum as a whole is we don’t fit in to the system built for NT’s and they don’t know what to do with us.


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sly279
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19 Feb 2019, 6:20 pm

You need to somehow bring trump into the title then your threads about autism might get attention.

Also for me i dont know what to say. I’m just glad I’m higher functioning



livingwithautism
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19 Feb 2019, 6:29 pm

sly279 wrote:
You need to somehow bring trump into the title then your threads about autism might get attention.

Also for me i dont know what to say. I’m just glad I’m higher functioning


That’s terrible advice. If the threads aren’t worth the attention by their own merit, then using Trump to attract people is pathetic at best.



sly279
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19 Feb 2019, 6:34 pm

livingwithautism wrote:
sly279 wrote:
You need to somehow bring trump into the title then your threads about autism might get attention.

Also for me i dont know what to say. I’m just glad I’m higher functioning


That’s terrible advice. If the threads aren’t worth the attention by their own merit, then using Trump to attract people is pathetic at best.

My point is people here are so obsessed with trump nothing else matters to them. From their posts it seems their life is 247/ trump.
I’d think a austisic being jailed would garner more response same with the other posts op makes about autistics , but he usually gets zero response meanwhile trump threads go on for 20 pages of circle jerking :roll:

I just find it sad



livingwithautism
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19 Feb 2019, 6:44 pm

sly279 wrote:
livingwithautism wrote:
sly279 wrote:
You need to somehow bring trump into the title then your threads about autism might get attention.

Also for me i dont know what to say. I’m just glad I’m higher functioning


That’s terrible advice. If the threads aren’t worth the attention by their own merit, then using Trump to attract people is pathetic at best.

My point is people here are so obsessed with trump nothing else matters to them. From their posts it seems their life is 247/ trump.
I’d think a austisic being jailed would garner more response same with the other posts op makes about autistics , but he usually gets zero response meanwhile trump threads go on for 20 pages of circle jerking :roll:

I just find it sad


I see I misunderstood what you said. You are right. Trump is just a buzz word people blindly follow.



EzraS
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20 Feb 2019, 3:37 am

Hopefully commonsense will prevail in this matter.



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20 Feb 2019, 8:47 am

EzraS wrote:
Hopefully commonsense will prevail in this matter.


Wanna bet?

Remember this statement: The law is an ass.


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BeaArthur
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20 Feb 2019, 10:09 am

OP often, very often, posts article links without any comment from himself. I commend him for copying text into the thread, since many of us are reluctant to click offsite links (or in my case, just lazy).

I don't believe ASPartOfMe is trying to get discussion going, just providing information for those that care to read it. But if he is trying for discussion, he should post a sentence or two of his own, to move things along.

But considering the caliber of posts in this subforum, it does not appear there is any point to discussions. It's usually the same half-dozen people posting the same opinions and not changing anybody's minds.


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20 Feb 2019, 10:13 am

BeaArthur wrote:
OP often, very often, posts article links without any comment from himself. I commend him for copying text into the thread, since many of us are reluctant to click offsite links (or in my case, just lazy).

I don't believe ASPartOfMe is trying to get discussion going, just providing information for those that care to read it. But if he is trying for discussion, he should post a sentence or two of his own, to move things along.

But considering the caliber of posts in this subforum, it does not appear there is any point to discussions. It's usually the same half-dozen people posting the same opinions and not changing anybody's minds.


I really wish I could like or thumbs up this post...Its just so true. Thank you, Bea



ASPartOfMe
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20 Feb 2019, 4:17 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
OP often, very often, posts article links without any comment from himself. I commend him for copying text into the thread, since many of us are reluctant to click offsite links (or in my case, just lazy).

I don't believe ASPartOfMe is trying to get discussion going, just providing information for those that care to read it. But if he is trying for discussion, he should post a sentence or two of his own, to move things along.

But considering the caliber of posts in this subforum, it does not appear there is any point to discussions. It's usually the same half-dozen people posting the same opinions and not changing anybody's minds.


I understand while I am the OP it is NOT MY THREAD.

After 5 1/2 years here I understand that
1. People are going to do or not do what they damn well please with threads I start.
2. I can not predict what reaction if any reaction at all threads I start will get. Commenting on it or just letting the article speak for itself does not seem to make a difference in my lack of predictive abilities.

I did comment in my OP.

I will not comment on articles I post for a number of reasons
1. I do not want to say the obvious in the vain of how terrible this is
2. I do not have an opinion because the situation is too complicated for me, I have not formed an opinion yet etc.
3. I have an opinion but understand it is ill-informed.


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League_Girl
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20 Feb 2019, 4:33 pm

Something doesn't add up.

Quote:
“Sixteen-years-old with the mind of a 3-year-old,


Quote:
He threatened to assault her, then went out in the garage and started smashing things. Then he left the house.


What 3 year old is capable of that?

This does not sound like a meltdown and the parents are probably just saying he has a mind of a 3 year old. No 3 year old thinks like this and says these things and uses threats.

Quote:
According to the police report, Damiean threatened the officers with a Snapple bottle.


Never seen a 3 year old threaten to hit anyone with an object. My son at that age however threatened to blow his sister's head off but he was mimicking what he was seeing on TV so that was when I started to do video restriction on what he could watch on TV or on youtube. He was no angry when he said it, he was just getting annoyed with her.



For the love of god, having the mind of a 3 year old means they have the intelligence of a 3 year old. Not what their interests are or whatever the parents mean by this. If someone says their child has a mind of a young age here and I see them doing more than what that age would be capable of, I will assume they are not that low intelligent as they have implied.

And I wonder why Issy Stapleton was never taken away and jailed when Kelli has called the police on her but yet this kid is? What a double standard, maybe it's because he is a boy and Issy was a girl. That makes sense now. Talk about sexism.

Quote:
Autistic aggression is common, but little help for families


What? I thought it was only the 10% who were aggressive.



Only thing I agree with here is if someone is a danger to the public, they should be locked away but an institution is a better place than jail. But sadly this is what they do to many mentally ill people and those with brain damage. This is what it has come to when we had stopped putting people in mental institutions. More and more prisons got filled up with people with mental disorders. Now they have basically become mental institutions for them.


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I have a quilt of labels. I had a language disorder and a speech disorder. Then communication disorder NOS. My other diagnoses have been Language Processing disorder, dyspraxia, SPD, OCD, ADD, Asperger’s, anxiety disorder, adjustment disorder, anorexia nervosa. My mom’s labels of me are: eating disorder, anorexia, social anxiety, PTSD, just being sensitive and having the victim complex when I was a kid. And of course she says I’m normal and says the only thing I had as a child was language. Huh? I must have been a shitty person then and maybe a difficult child I was who had to be labeled because of incompetent school staff and mean kids who didn’t accept differences and because I was trying to be “normal.” :/

My blog: https://mynoneabdlthoughts.wordpress.com/


BeaArthur
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20 Feb 2019, 5:03 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I understand while I am the OP it is NOT MY THREAD.

After 5 1/2 years here I understand that
1. People are going to do or not do what they damn well please with threads I start.
2. I can not predict what reaction if any reaction at all threads I start will get. Commenting on it or just letting the article speak for itself does not seem to make a difference in my lack of predictive abilities.

I did comment in my OP.

I will not comment on articles I post for a number of reasons
1. I do not want to say the obvious in the vain of how terrible this is
2. I do not have an opinion because the situation is too complicated for me, I have not formed an opinion yet etc.
3. I have an opinion but understand it is ill-informed.

I apologize - I did not mean you should be doing anything differently. I value the articles you post. Thank you for your comment on the OP this time ... it did get conversation going!


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Meistersinger
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20 Feb 2019, 5:22 pm

I was commenting on EzraS comment on common sense prevailing in the OP’s original post. I’ve lived long enough to be somewhat bitter and resigned to how people in society, ESPECIALLY on the training, or the lack thereof, regarding those of us with mental, developmental and neurological issues, by any and everyone in the legal profession. It’s like we reverted back to the era in France known as “le grand terreur.”


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20 Feb 2019, 5:54 pm

Years ago, posting threads like this would spark in a discussion and always turn into an argument about autistic people being jailed and other autistic people who are higher functioning saying if you are going to be a danger to others, they should be locked away where they can hurt no one and now posting threads like this sparks no discussion. It's like everyone has moved on or the activist nutters have left this forum so there is no discussion anymore.


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I have a quilt of labels. I had a language disorder and a speech disorder. Then communication disorder NOS. My other diagnoses have been Language Processing disorder, dyspraxia, SPD, OCD, ADD, Asperger’s, anxiety disorder, adjustment disorder, anorexia nervosa. My mom’s labels of me are: eating disorder, anorexia, social anxiety, PTSD, just being sensitive and having the victim complex when I was a kid. And of course she says I’m normal and says the only thing I had as a child was language. Huh? I must have been a shitty person then and maybe a difficult child I was who had to be labeled because of incompetent school staff and mean kids who didn’t accept differences and because I was trying to be “normal.” :/

My blog: https://mynoneabdlthoughts.wordpress.com/


ASPartOfMe
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20 Feb 2019, 7:43 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I understand while I am the OP it is NOT MY THREAD.

After 5 1/2 years here I understand that
1. People are going to do or not do what they damn well please with threads I start.
2. I can not predict what reaction if any reaction at all threads I start will get. Commenting on it or just letting the article speak for itself does not seem to make a difference in my lack of predictive abilities.

I did comment in my OP.

I will not comment on articles I post for a number of reasons
1. I do not want to say the obvious in the vain of how terrible this is
2. I do not have an opinion because the situation is too complicated for me, I have not formed an opinion yet etc.
3. I have an opinion but understand it is ill-informed.

I apologize - I did not mean you should be doing anything differently. I value the articles you post. Thank you for your comment on the OP this time ... it did get conversation going!


Nothing to apologize for. I interpreted your post as describing my posting style not criticizing it.


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