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Trump executive order no free speech on campus, grants cut

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ASPartOfMe
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03 Mar 2019, 10:09 pm

Trump says he’ll sign executive order for free speech on college campuses

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President Trump announced Saturday he intends to sign an executive order mandating colleges and universities take steps to guarantee free speech to attain federal research grants.

“We reject oppressive speech codes, censorship, political correctness and every other attempt by the hard left to stop people from challenging ridiculous and dangerous ideas. These ideas are dangerous,” Trump said. “Instead we believe in free speech, including online and including on campus.”

“Today I’m proud to announce that I will be very soon signing an executive order requiring colleges and universities to support free speech if they want federal research grants.”

Trump threatened that refusing to abide by the executive order would impose a heavy cost on their budgets.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Hill seeking additional guidance on the executive order.

Free speech has emerged as a chief motivator for conservatives in recent years, particularly after several prominent conservative speakers, such as right-wing provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos, had events canceled at campuses across the country.


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Prometheus18
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03 Mar 2019, 10:24 pm

Not a Trump fan but good on him for this one.



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03 Mar 2019, 11:44 pm

Well done. About time.


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ASPartOfMe
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04 Mar 2019, 4:15 pm

As they say the devil is in the details. The idea is good in concept but this administration has a history of both overpromising and its opposite overcorrecting.


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04 Mar 2019, 4:19 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
As they say the devil is in the details. The idea is good in concept but this administration has a history of both overpromising and its opposite overcorrecting.
Like allowing every wingnut and crackpot to spread lies and hatred just because there is no law against it.

Imma tellya, if the only defense that a person can put up for whatever they say or print is "There's no law against it", then whatever they're saying or printing has absolutely no intrinsic value whatsoever.



BaronHarkonnen85
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04 Mar 2019, 6:56 pm

Good. There are enough crazy admins out there who think truth is "hate speech."


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redrobin62
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05 Mar 2019, 6:29 am

Free speech is already protected on college and university campuses nationwide; thus, if a conservative proselytizer gets punched in the face, his perpetrator will be dealt with accordingly by the police. What Trump really wants is a law which says something like: "Conservatives are free to proselytize on college and university campuses and must be given ample protection by the institute of higher learning."

Not only do schools not have those kind of guarding resources, but a blanket protection order could mean any group (since fair is fair) is free to preach their school-protected beliefs on campus, from the New Black Panther Party to the KKK to the Nation of Islam to the Proud Boys. Now, can you imagine being on a campus where, every day, college-protected groups are preaching from their bullhorn on this and that subject? Now only would the security costs be sky high, but the din would be so distracting that no one would learn anything and going to that school would be a waste of time.

And, of course, there's that pesky little document called the First Amendment of the US Constitution to contend with which prevents the government from making laws which respect an establishment of religion. This was applied by the US Supreme Court at the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District vs Grumet in 1994. To wit:

"The court, in an opinion by Justice Souter, held that the creation of a school district unit of government designed to coincide with the neighborhood boundaries of a religious group constitutes an unconstitutional aid to religion. Souter concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_ ... _v._Grumet


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Last edited by redrobin62 on 05 Mar 2019, 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Prometheus18
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05 Mar 2019, 6:47 am

LOL at the above. We're seeing moderate conservative speakers "no platformed" every day now. That's not protecting free speech.



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05 Mar 2019, 8:02 am

It's pretty easy to discern which of Trump's core constituencies this executive order panders to.

Hate groups make unprecedented push to recruit on college campuses

A Former Neo-Nazi Lays Bare the Campus Strategy of White Supremacists

White supremacist recruitment on college campuses increased more than 200%

White Supremacist Propaganda Invades College Campuses

Neo-Nazis Target College Campuses in Recruitment Drive

White Supremacists Are Targeting College Students ‘Like Never Before’

The Alt-right Wants You: White Supremacists Embark on U.S. Campus Recruitment Campaign

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ASPartOfMe
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05 Mar 2019, 8:52 am

redrobin62 wrote:
Free speech is already protected on college and university campuses nationwide; thus, if a conservative proselytizer gets punched in the face, his perpetrator will be dealt with accordingly by the police. What Trump really wants is a law which says something like: "Conservatives are free to proselytize on college and university campuses and must be given ample protection by the institute of higher learning."

Not only do schools not have those kind of guarding resources, but a blanket protection order could mean any group (since fair is fair) is free to preach their school-protected beliefs on campus, from the New Black Panther Party to the KKK to the Nation of Islam to the Proud Boys. Now, can you imagine being on a campus where, every day, college-protected groups are preaching from their bullhorn on this and that subject? Now only would the security costs be sky high, but the din would be so distracting that no one would learn anything and going to that school would be a waste of time.

And, of course, there's that pesky little document called the First Amendment of the US Constitution to contend with which prevents the government from making laws which respect an establishment of religion. This was applied by the US Supreme Court at the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District vs Grumet in 1994. To wit:

"The court, in an opinion by Justice Souter, held that the creation of a school district unit of government designed to coincide with the neighborhood boundaries of a religious group constitutes an unconstitutional aid to religion. Souter concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_ ... _v._Grumet

ANY groups speech are supposed to be protected to in public places because they are constitutional guaranteed that includes Nazis in a neighborhood full of holocaust survivors. It can be expensive, that is why literaly it is the price of freedom. I can imagine being on a campus where all sorts of groups everyday are speaking loudly. It is called the the late 60s and the beginning of the 70s.

Kiryas Joel is a public school disctrict promoting a religion. A private university as with a private company can decide which points of view are allowed to be heard on thier property.

As Piobaire implied I suspect federal grants will not be cut by this administration to schools that ban progressive speech. Politics as usual, goverment funds are used and withheld for political reasons everyday.

I suspect that some schools and municipalities “unenthusiatically” protect the right to certain speech, Berkeley and Portland I am thinking about you.


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05 Mar 2019, 4:30 pm

BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Good. There are enough crazy admins out there who think truth is "hate speech."


What truth would you say, they consider to be hate speech?


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05 Mar 2019, 4:36 pm

Hate Speech": (1) Speech that attacks a person or a group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity; (2) Speech, gestures, conduct, writing, or displays that incite violence or prejudicial actions against a group or individuals on the basis of their membership in the group, or disparages or intimidates a group, or individuals on the basis of their membership in the group.

Unfortunately, even under these terms, "Hate Speech" is constitutionally protected in the United States.

So, even if the speech is "truth" (regardless of who defines it as "truth"), it is hate speech if it is used as a form of attack, or if it is perceived as a form of attack.



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05 Mar 2019, 4:44 pm

Meh it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

That said College in this country is in a lot of ways a gigantic scam. Ridiculous tuition costs so even if you do graduate you likely still owe a ton of money. And well if you don't graduate...you're in debt and you don't even have a degree to seek a 'high paying career' so you just start being already behind.

Also the whole thing with the frats and sororities, is extremely toxic...who thought it would be a good idea to have on campus cults...


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05 Mar 2019, 4:50 pm

Frats, sororities, and inter-collegiate sports teams are all a waste of time, money and effort to someone who just wants to earn a degree.



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05 Mar 2019, 5:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
Frats, sororities, and inter-collegiate sports teams are all a waste of time, money and effort to someone who just wants to earn a degree.


Figures.


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05 Mar 2019, 5:27 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Frats, sororities and inter-collegiate sports teams are all a waste of time, money and effort to someone who just wants to earn a degree.
Figures.
"Figures" that I'm correct, or "Figures" that I would post that?