Some children can 'recover' from autism, but problems often

Page 1 of 2 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,850
Location: Calne,England

12 Mar 2019, 10:01 am

Research in the past several years has shown that children can outgrow a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), once considered a lifelong condition. In a new study, researchers at Albert Einstein College of Medicine and Montefiore Health System have found that the vast majority of such children still have difficulties that require therapeutic and educational support. The study was published online today in the Journal of Child Neurology.


https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-03- ... blems.html


_________________
Socially drifted middle class


Trogluddite
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2016
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075
Location: Yorkshire, UK

12 Mar 2019, 1:47 pm

If my experience is anything to go by, many of those kids aren't "recovering" from autism at all - they're simply internalising how to hide it ("masking", "passing", etc.) If you bash into kid's heads that e.g. stimming is inappropriate behaviour, then some of them will learn to use will-power to stop doing it when anyone's looking - but that doesn't mean that they have lost the instinct to do it. This kind of "we can't see it any more, therefore it isn't there" thinking seems to be the primary "evidence" that behavioural therapies such as ABA are effective.

This completely ignores that "masking" can impose a huge cognitive load on one's mind, and can seriously affect one's sense of "self" and feeling of agency. I have said for a long time that being autistic isn't solely why I have suffered for so long with anxiety and depression - it's the pretending not to be that's the larger problem in many respects. Hence, the finding that these "recovered" children show signs of mental illness and other conditions does not surprise me in the least.

The same factors affect diagnosis for adults - many are turned away by GPs because they don't display any obvious external signs (especially when the symptoms of anxiety/depression are also present.) The fact that the article doesn't even mention this possibility is a very serious omission, in my opinion.


_________________
When you are fighting an invisible monster, first throw a bucket of paint over it.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

12 Mar 2019, 7:19 pm

Trogluddite wrote:
If my experience is anything to go by, many of those kids aren't "recovering" from autism at all - they're simply internalising how to hide it ("masking", "passing", etc.) If you bash into kid's heads that e.g. stimming is inappropriate behaviour, then some of them will learn to use will-power to stop doing it when anyone's looking - but that doesn't mean that they have lost the instinct to do it. This kind of "we can't see it any more, therefore it isn't there" thinking seems to be the primary "evidence" that behavioural therapies such as ABA are effective.

This completely ignores that "masking" can impose a huge cognitive load on one's mind, and can seriously affect one's sense of "self" and feeling of agency. I have said for a long time that being autistic isn't solely why I have suffered for so long with anxiety and depression - it's the pretending not to be that's the larger problem in many respects. Hence, the finding that these "recovered" children show signs of mental illness and other conditions does not surprise me in the least.

The same factors affect diagnosis for adults - many are turned away by GPs because they don't display any obvious external signs (especially when the symptoms of anxiety/depression are also present.) The fact that the article doesn't even mention this possibility is a very serious omission, in my opinion.


While these people do not have enough "symptoms" for diagnosis anymore they still are "impaired" enough to need help for conditions that are common co-morbids of Autism or that were common misdiagnosis for autism in the past. The oldest in the study group are now just becoming young adults so it is unknown if the Autistic traits will come back enough for rediagnosis due to Autistic burnout/regression brought on by the pressures of being an adult. As "former autistics" they likely received extensive ABA-based therapies.


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

12 Mar 2019, 7:34 pm

In essence, people "adjust"/"adapt" to their autism, rather than "recover" from it.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,850
Location: Calne,England

13 Mar 2019, 1:07 am

I am curious about the masking . Is that something people make a conscious effort to do? Wysiwyg with me and I would find it very hard to come over differently to people .


_________________
Socially drifted middle class


TimS1980
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 194
Location: Melbourne, Australia

13 Mar 2019, 1:46 am

Quote:
The vast majority had received early intervention services, a mix of speech and occupational therapies, special instruction, and applied behavioral analysis (the main evidence-based treatment for ASD).


The whole article makes my skin crawl a bit.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,850
Location: Calne,England

13 Mar 2019, 2:16 am

Why does it make your skin crawl ?


_________________
Socially drifted middle class


Magna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,932

13 Mar 2019, 6:21 am

Balderdash. I agree with others who say that some can learn to adapt to a degree in order to "fit in", but that's hardly 'recovering'.



DanielW
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2019
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,873
Location: PNW USA

13 Mar 2019, 6:52 am

This "recovery" nonsense is dangerous. I can see it worsening the whole parents seeking snake-oil "cures" for their children. Therapy and behavior modification doesn't cure anything. It just teaches kids to hide, feel ashamed of themselves, or "sit still, and shut up"

Wait a bit and you'll find a new generation of "cured" adults who are depressed, anxious, anti-social, and miserable. I am speaking from personal experience here.



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

13 Mar 2019, 8:46 am

Dr. Shulman did not say they were recovered or cured but that they were in "essence recovered". "Recover" in an autism context has come to have a very nasty meaning. It views Autism as some sort of curse, disease, or doppelganger that has taken control of a normal cute child. What needs to be “recovered” is this supposed cute normal child. It was first used by Dr. Bruno Bettelheim in reference to “recovering” children from refrigerator mothers. Nowadays the word is prominently used by anti-vaxxers to justly all sorts of horrible quack treatments. While ABA is the “gold standard” Autism treatment in America many of us feel that behind the scientific jargon and positive language is the same view of autism as a horror that needs to be “recovered” from.

That so many obvious things pointed out above are ignored is telling. It shows the same desperation to cure autism that lies behind the appeal of snake oil salesmen selling quack cures.


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 13 Mar 2019, 11:51 am, edited 7 times in total.

kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

13 Mar 2019, 8:49 am

Has anybody ever read Ivor Lovaas' study?

Supposedly, through his "Discrete Trial Training," many kids were "cured" of autism, and able to attend "mainstream" classes.

The subsequent results, though, didn't seem good for the study subjects. There was one person here who was part of his study.



EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

13 Mar 2019, 11:18 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
In essence, people "adjust"/"adapt" to their autism, rather than "recover" from it.


Yep that's exactly right. My occupational therapy is about finding ways around it, but it's always there.



lostonearth35
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jan 2010
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,896
Location: On a planet where I don't belong.

13 Mar 2019, 11:25 am

Why can't the world just accept the fact we are what we are, and they should just get over it the same way they got over things like race, homosexuality and being left-handed? Not that there aren't still people who think all those things are wrong.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 72,433
Location: Chez Quis

13 Mar 2019, 4:45 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
Why can't the world just accept the fact we are what we are, and they should just get over it the same way they got over things like race, homosexuality and being left-handed? Not that there aren't still people who think all those things are wrong.


I was going to say the same thing, especially about being left-handed. My ASD father was caned and had his left hand tied behind his back at school. He was told he would go to Hell, so he attempted to hide his left-handedness for most of his school career. Teachers who didn't realise what he was doing called him 'sloppy' or 'careless' because his right-hand penmanship was so bad. He was punished and caned again.

I also admire Trogluddite's answer and couldn't have said it better myself. As someone who masked my entire life until middle-aged diagnosis in 2018, I can tell you the horrors of nervous breakdowns, autistic breakdowns and having a stroke because of hiding who I really was. Masking is not the answer, nor should it have to be.


_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

13 Mar 2019, 11:45 pm

In my experience I have been accepted for what I am. But that carries a lot of limitations. I've never seen anything wrong with being helped to get around my neurological obstacles. Any more than being helped with my physical disability.

But I am in a different world I guess. Things like stimming and eye contact were way down the list of things to conquer. For me it was learning how to talk some and read and write and be able to look after myself somewhat.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,850
Location: Calne,England

14 Mar 2019, 6:14 am

I wonder how they can distinguish between people who are masking/passing and those who have actually recovered .


_________________
Socially drifted middle class