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EzraS
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25 Mar 2019, 10:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
So what? I'm supposed to love Trump now? The guy is still a terrible president. He will always be a terrible president. Just like Obama with his empty half-baked promise of change and Bush with his war on terror BS. :roll:


Personally, I'd take Obama or Bush any day over Trump. :D


Because of those two horrific Presidents and there double terms you now have Trump :D Because of the Russiagate hoax being pushed for nearly 3 years by the same media outlets now making out that mass murderer Bush wasn't so bad and Obama was the second coming of Jesus Christ, it is very likely you will get Trump for a second term. Just like I warned.


Obama saved the economy from the mess Bush left him, and gave millions of Americans health care. He wasn't the Second Coming, but he hardly sounds like he was a horrible President.


He bailed out crooked banks for trillions of dollars. Trump has improved Obama's mess. His healthcare plan was a Republican one and importantly left millions without healthcare. Gave lots of people a plan they couldn't afford. Disaster.


Thereby saving the economy, an giving healthcare to millions who had not had it before.
Just how did Trump fix Obama's mess? Just because Trump says he did hardly means he actually did it.


That's a standard untruth. Health insurance was made available. Nobody was given health insurance. And unless you're living in poverty, the health insurance made available is too expensive.



Kraichgauer
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25 Mar 2019, 10:28 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
So what? I'm supposed to love Trump now? The guy is still a terrible president. He will always be a terrible president. Just like Obama with his empty half-baked promise of change and Bush with his war on terror BS. :roll:


Personally, I'd take Obama or Bush any day over Trump. :D


Because of those two horrific Presidents and there double terms you now have Trump :D Because of the Russiagate hoax being pushed for nearly 3 years by the same media outlets now making out that mass murderer Bush wasn't so bad and Obama was the second coming of Jesus Christ, it is very likely you will get Trump for a second term. Just like I warned.


Obama saved the economy from the mess Bush left him, and gave millions of Americans health care. He wasn't the Second Coming, but he hardly sounds like he was a horrible President.


He bailed out crooked banks for trillions of dollars. Trump has improved Obama's mess. His healthcare plan was a Republican one and importantly left millions without healthcare. Gave lots of people a plan they couldn't afford. Disaster.


Thereby saving the economy, an giving healthcare to millions who had not had it before.
Just how did Trump fix Obama's mess? Just because Trump says he did hardly means he actually did it.


That's a standard untruth. Health insurance was made available. Nobody was given health insurance. And unless you're living in poverty, the health insurance made available is too expensive.


Plenty of us were too poor to afford health insurance. If you conservatives cared about those without, maybe something else could have been arranged. Unfortunately, American conservatives have bought hook-line-and-sinker into Social Darwinism on the secular side, and the prosperity gospel on the religious side. Both are equally abhorrent, and believes the poor are deserving to die.


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EzraS
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25 Mar 2019, 10:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
So what? I'm supposed to love Trump now? The guy is still a terrible president. He will always be a terrible president. Just like Obama with his empty half-baked promise of change and Bush with his war on terror BS. :roll:


Personally, I'd take Obama or Bush any day over Trump. :D


Because of those two horrific Presidents and there double terms you now have Trump :D Because of the Russiagate hoax being pushed for nearly 3 years by the same media outlets now making out that mass murderer Bush wasn't so bad and Obama was the second coming of Jesus Christ, it is very likely you will get Trump for a second term. Just like I warned.


Obama saved the economy from the mess Bush left him, and gave millions of Americans health care. He wasn't the Second Coming, but he hardly sounds like he was a horrible President.


He bailed out crooked banks for trillions of dollars. Trump has improved Obama's mess. His healthcare plan was a Republican one and importantly left millions without healthcare. Gave lots of people a plan they couldn't afford. Disaster.


Thereby saving the economy, an giving healthcare to millions who had not had it before.
Just how did Trump fix Obama's mess? Just because Trump says he did hardly means he actually did it.


That's a standard untruth. Health insurance was made available. Nobody was given health insurance. And unless you're living in poverty, the health insurance made available is too expensive.


Plenty of us were too poor to afford health insurance. If you conservatives cared about those without, maybe something else could have been arranged. Unfortunately, American conservatives have bought hook-line-and-sinker into Social Darwinism on the secular side, and the prosperity gospel on the religious side. Both are equally abhorrent, and believes the poor are deserving to die.


Hasn't there always been medicate, medicare, low cost and free clinics for the poor? There's a homeless WP member who gets a ton of free hospitalization and medical care.



Kraichgauer
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25 Mar 2019, 11:05 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
So what? I'm supposed to love Trump now? The guy is still a terrible president. He will always be a terrible president. Just like Obama with his empty half-baked promise of change and Bush with his war on terror BS. :roll:


Personally, I'd take Obama or Bush any day over Trump. :D


Because of those two horrific Presidents and there double terms you now have Trump :D Because of the Russiagate hoax being pushed for nearly 3 years by the same media outlets now making out that mass murderer Bush wasn't so bad and Obama was the second coming of Jesus Christ, it is very likely you will get Trump for a second term. Just like I warned.


Obama saved the economy from the mess Bush left him, and gave millions of Americans health care. He wasn't the Second Coming, but he hardly sounds like he was a horrible President.


He bailed out crooked banks for trillions of dollars. Trump has improved Obama's mess. His healthcare plan was a Republican one and importantly left millions without healthcare. Gave lots of people a plan they couldn't afford. Disaster.


Thereby saving the economy, an giving healthcare to millions who had not had it before.
Just how did Trump fix Obama's mess? Just because Trump says he did hardly means he actually did it.


That's a standard untruth. Health insurance was made available. Nobody was given health insurance. And unless you're living in poverty, the health insurance made available is too expensive.


Plenty of us were too poor to afford health insurance. If you conservatives cared about those without, maybe something else could have been arranged. Unfortunately, American conservatives have bought hook-line-and-sinker into Social Darwinism on the secular side, and the prosperity gospel on the religious side. Both are equally abhorrent, and believes the poor are deserving to die.


Hasn't there always been medicate, medicare, low cost and free clinics for the poor? There's a homeless WP member who gets a ton of free hospitalization and medical care.


As poor people have suffered from lack of medical coverage, obviously not. That is, till Obamacare kicked in. Single payer would be even better.
Perhaps you should rethink that statement about there being enough medical coverage for the poor, as people in poverty regularly die from lack of medical care.


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EzraS
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25 Mar 2019, 11:42 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
As poor people have suffered from lack of medical coverage, obviously not. That is, till Obamacare kicked in. Single payer would be even better.
Perhaps you should rethink that statement about there being enough medical coverage for the poor, as people in poverty regularly die from lack of medical care.


I did not make a statement, I asked a question about it. I have an aunt who works in the service industry who has suffered greatly since obamacare started. And that's where my attitude about obamacare comes from.

Because her employer, in an industry that employs millions, has a health insurance plan, she does not qualify for a subsidy. She can either go with the company insurance plan or get whatever ACA is offering. Both of which been hugely expensive.

There are millions in the same boat who don't make much money, who can not afford heath insurance, unless they work overtime or a second job. So many just end up going without. My aunt said a co-worker's attitude is, "if I have an emergency they have to take me in".

And those who go without get fined hundreds of dollars at tax time. So no health insurance and the government steals hundreds of dollars from them.

Perhaps you should rethink that statement of "Obama gave healthcare to millions who had not had it before". Because he also took away actually affordable healthcare plans from millions of workers.

If you had a low paying service industry job, instead of being a "staving artist", you would not be praising obamacare.



Kraichgauer
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25 Mar 2019, 11:53 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As poor people have suffered from lack of medical coverage, obviously not. That is, till Obamacare kicked in. Single payer would be even better.
Perhaps you should rethink that statement about there being enough medical coverage for the poor, as people in poverty regularly die from lack of medical care.


I did not make a statement, I asked a question about it. I have an aunt who works in the service industry who has suffered greatly since obamacare started. And that's where my attitude about obamacare comes from.

Because her employer, in an industry that employs millions, has a health insurance plan, she does not qualify for a subsidy. She can either go with the company insurance plan or get whatever ACA is offering. Both of which been hugely expensive.

There are millions in the same boat who don't make much money, who can not afford heath insurance, unless they work overtime or a second job. So many just end up going without. My aunt said a co-worker's attitude is, "if I have an emergency they have to take me in".

And those who go without get fined hundreds of dollars at tax time. So no health insurance and the government steals hundreds of dollars from them.

Perhaps you should rethink that statement of "Obama gave healthcare to millions who had not had it before". Because he also took away actually affordable healthcare plans from millions of workers.

If you had a low paying service industry job, instead of being a "staving artist", you would not be praising obamacare.


I have worked plenty of low paying jobs in my time, and the medical coverage - when I had it - wasn't that great. Plenty of people working low paying jobs don't get health coverage from their employers, but were helped by Obamacare.
Obamacare just needed to be tightened up and fixed to work for everyone. There are even Republicans today who believe that.


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EzraS
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26 Mar 2019, 12:01 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As poor people have suffered from lack of medical coverage, obviously not. That is, till Obamacare kicked in. Single payer would be even better.
Perhaps you should rethink that statement about there being enough medical coverage for the poor, as people in poverty regularly die from lack of medical care.


I did not make a statement, I asked a question about it. I have an aunt who works in the service industry who has suffered greatly since obamacare started. And that's where my attitude about obamacare comes from.

Because her employer, in an industry that employs millions, has a health insurance plan, she does not qualify for a subsidy. She can either go with the company insurance plan or get whatever ACA is offering. Both of which been hugely expensive.

There are millions in the same boat who don't make much money, who can not afford heath insurance, unless they work overtime or a second job. So many just end up going without. My aunt said a co-worker's attitude is, "if I have an emergency they have to take me in".

And those who go without get fined hundreds of dollars at tax time. So no health insurance and the government steals hundreds of dollars from them.

Perhaps you should rethink that statement of "Obama gave healthcare to millions who had not had it before". Because he also took away actually affordable healthcare plans from millions of workers.

If you had a low paying service industry job, instead of being a "staving artist", you would not be praising obamacare.


I have worked plenty of low paying jobs in my time, and the medical coverage - when I had it - wasn't that great. Plenty of people working low paying jobs don't get health coverage from their employers, but were helped by Obamacare.
Obamacare just needed to be tightened up and fixed to work for everyone. There are even Republicans today who believe that.


And millions who did have a genuinely affordable health insurance plan from their employer had it taken away from them. And they have been greatly harmed by obamacare.

What annoys me is how that gets glossed over in favor of the "Obama gave healthcare to millions who had not had it before" spiel. Because it is only partially true.



I'll correct that reporter's opening statement that some will lose their plan, to millions lost their plan.

Obama said back then in 2013 that he would work to fix that monumental blunder of obamacare, and he did not do so.



Kraichgauer
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26 Mar 2019, 12:40 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As poor people have suffered from lack of medical coverage, obviously not. That is, till Obamacare kicked in. Single payer would be even better.
Perhaps you should rethink that statement about there being enough medical coverage for the poor, as people in poverty regularly die from lack of medical care.


I did not make a statement, I asked a question about it. I have an aunt who works in the service industry who has suffered greatly since obamacare started. And that's where my attitude about obamacare comes from.

Because her employer, in an industry that employs millions, has a health insurance plan, she does not qualify for a subsidy. She can either go with the company insurance plan or get whatever ACA is offering. Both of which been hugely expensive.

There are millions in the same boat who don't make much money, who can not afford heath insurance, unless they work overtime or a second job. So many just end up going without. My aunt said a co-worker's attitude is, "if I have an emergency they have to take me in".

And those who go without get fined hundreds of dollars at tax time. So no health insurance and the government steals hundreds of dollars from them.

Perhaps you should rethink that statement of "Obama gave healthcare to millions who had not had it before". Because he also took away actually affordable healthcare plans from millions of workers.

If you had a low paying service industry job, instead of being a "staving artist", you would not be praising obamacare.


I have worked plenty of low paying jobs in my time, and the medical coverage - when I had it - wasn't that great. Plenty of people working low paying jobs don't get health coverage from their employers, but were helped by Obamacare.
Obamacare just needed to be tightened up and fixed to work for everyone. There are even Republicans today who believe that.


And millions who did have a genuinely affordable health insurance plan from their employer had it taken away from them. And they have been greatly harmed by obamacare.

What annoys me is how that gets glossed over in favor of the "Obama gave healthcare to millions who had not had it before" spiel. Because it is only partially true.



I'll correct that reporter's opening statement that some will lose their plan, to millions lost their plan.

Obama said back then in 2013 that he would work to fix that monumental blunder of obamacare, and he did not do so.


I sincerely doubt Obama conspired to take health coverage from anyone. That was an unforeseen problem which could be worked out. Personally, though, I'd like to go to single payer.
What's supposed to happen to those millions of people who got health coverage through Obamacare if it's repealed? Trump's promise of stupendous health care to replace the Obama plan has proven to be as illusionary as all his other promises. Blaming people for being poor is hardly the answer, except to give conservatives the luxury of shirking responsibility for helping the neediest.


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EzraS
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26 Mar 2019, 1:54 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I sincerely doubt Obama conspired to take health coverage from anyone. That was an unforeseen problem which could be worked out. Personally, though, I'd like to go to single payer.
What's supposed to happen to those millions of people who got health coverage through Obamacare if it's repealed? Trump's promise of stupendous health care to replace the Obama plan has proven to be as illusionary as all his other promises. Blaming people for being poor is hardly the answer, except to give conservatives the luxury of shirking responsibility for helping the neediest.


It was a good idea that was poorly implemented and never fixed.

The idea is to simultaneously repeal and replace. And hopefully that will happen with either this president or the next one.

I don't know what the particulars were with the amemded healthcare plan the president tired to pass, but I do know that it didn't pass; probably out of spite.

The poor aren't being blamed. None of this was their idea. This isn't anything that the people voted for. Obama is to blame for it, and that's why he apologized for it. I think his original intention was sincere and I think his apology was sincere. But millions of people are still experiencing a healthcare disaster nightmare, that's gone on for years and is getting steadily worse.



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26 Mar 2019, 2:07 am

There's no point arguing with people who will just make excuses for terrible politicians because they are on their team. Obama and Bush are the worst two Presidents in history.


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26 Mar 2019, 3:50 am

I agree, Bush was horrible. Maybe he "acted more presidential" but he was an awful president. I don't think Obama was quite as bad, but maybe his ineptitude is less obvious to me than Bush's. With Trump it's hard to say because there's been such a media crapfest going on.



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26 Mar 2019, 7:50 am

Mueller Madness: The media pundits who got it most wrong



BaronHarkonnen85
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26 Mar 2019, 10:44 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

If you conservatives cared about those without, maybe something else could have been arranged.


I've been saying this for a while now. If they had been committed to fixing healthcare and not calling every program to help the little guy "socialism," they might be doing better.

Of course, I don't consider American "conservatives" to be conservatives. The only thing they want to conserve is the "free market." Markets are well and good, but they are materialist in nature. They don't care about public virtue, culture, or tradition.


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26 Mar 2019, 11:36 am

We?

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Kraichgauer
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26 Mar 2019, 11:49 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I sincerely doubt Obama conspired to take health coverage from anyone. That was an unforeseen problem which could be worked out. Personally, though, I'd like to go to single payer.
What's supposed to happen to those millions of people who got health coverage through Obamacare if it's repealed? Trump's promise of stupendous health care to replace the Obama plan has proven to be as illusionary as all his other promises. Blaming people for being poor is hardly the answer, except to give conservatives the luxury of shirking responsibility for helping the neediest.


It was a good idea that was poorly implemented and never fixed.

The idea is to simultaneously repeal and replace. And hopefully that will happen with either this president or the next one.

I don't know what the particulars were with the amemded healthcare plan the president tired to pass, but I do know that it didn't pass; probably out of spite.

The poor aren't being blamed. None of this was their idea. This isn't anything that the people voted for. Obama is to blame for it, and that's why he apologized for it. I think his original intention was sincere and I think his apology was sincere. But millions of people are still experiencing a healthcare disaster nightmare, that's gone on for years and is getting steadily worse.


Was repeal and replace ever a real option? The right had never wanted everyone to have equal medical coverage, because they believe the poor are undeserving due to laziness. Plus, that kind of equality sends a wrecking ball straight through the hierarchy conservatives believe in, whether they admit to it or not.


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26 Mar 2019, 11:51 am

BaronHarkonnen85 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

If you conservatives cared about those without, maybe something else could have been arranged.


I've been saying this for a while now. If they had been committed to fixing healthcare and not calling every program to help the little guy "socialism," they might be doing better.

Of course, I don't consider American "conservatives" to be conservatives. The only thing they want to conserve is the "free market." Markets are well and good, but they are materialist in nature. They don't care about public virtue, culture, or tradition.


:thumleft: Thank you, Baron.


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