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Crimadella
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16 Jun 2019, 2:21 pm

The Pentagon finally admits it investigates UFOs
How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings


Ok, lets get the story straight. For centuries people have claimed to see objects in the sky which we eventually label as UFO's. Scientists say people are crazy to believe such, as the objects they describe would defy all known physics. The pentagon admits that the UFO sightings do in fact occur and we have no way to explain them, so the so called skeptical people or non-crazy people say it must be a foreign power's secret aircraft with secret physics that no known scientist can explain and defies all known physics. We live in a massive universe, we evolved from this universe, the likelihood that other intelligent life exists is extremely high, pretty much a logical assumption, yet any kind of mystery cannot be explained by other intelligent life forms or the person must be crazy. People who deny the common sense assumption that aliens do exist might as well believe that God is real and created this entire universe for this one little planet to evolve intelligent life. At what point does denying the existence of other intelligent in the universe switch from being skeptical to just not believing it, denial, at all costs. People who rationalized that yes, other intelligent life exists and that could be why people claim to see UFO's(I've seen one myself, the same one, twice in 15 minutes) must be crazy, because it's possible other life forms could have easily evolved intelligence many thousands of years before us, and such life forms would surely have physics which we are no wear near close to understanding. Also the principle of, we evolved to be intelligent, if it happened once within nature it is likely to happen again and again, and likely we aren't the first ones to evolve intelligence in this incomprehensibly enormous universe. Now, people claimed that you are crazy to believe in such because our known physics can't explain how UFO's move, now these same people claim the most simple explanation for these deniers is that it's more than likely secret technology from another country which has physics that defies all known physics on the rest of the planet??

Why do they just not accept the actual most simple explanation? Rather they do everything they can to suggest that there is no way it could be aliens, that answer defies logic. Logically, if we evolved to become intelligent, so have many other beings throughout the universe(Nature repeats itself, a well known phenomena). That tells you that yes, other intelligent life exists. Logic would also lead one to assume that out of the vastness of the universe and the billions of years it has existed, you would have to think we are special to be lucky enough to be the first ones to evolve intelligence. Given that understanding that yes, more than likely other life forms evolved intelligence way before we did, some of them are likely to have an understanding of physics that far surpasses our current knowledge. Knowing that, which isn't a complicated idea, rather simple and rather likely in reasonable thinking, one could assume that more than likely, people report UFO's because they actually see them. Now given the history of that, yes a lot of people see false UFO's, as in it is a UFO to them while it can easily be explained. The likelihood that all of them could be passed off as explainable is very unlikely, yet the deniers would suggest that if they were real our governments would be aware of them. A reasonable person would think, well I doubt the government would be honest about it but yes I could agree that they would be aware of them. So now they admit they are aware of them and have been observing them for a long time.....duh! Kinda just like all the "crazy people" suggested. Now, lets take the denial to, it must be from another country? Really??? So why hasn't this "country" taken over the world and built cities with technology that we are clueless about and our best scientists can't even explain how it's possible to have such technology because our understanding of physics does not allow such technology to exist. So now, the most simple answer to these deniers is, it's another country that is thousands of years ahead of us in understanding physics and creating technology. At what point do the deniers start feeling like an idiot for denying the most simple answer while suggesting that a ridiculous answer is the likely truth?

I'm just curious, for the deniers, say we actually make contact with these extraterrestrial beings and our government actually admits it and makes it public. Would you then realize, knowing and seeing for yourself that they are real, that you actually adopted an illogical approach, doing all you can to deny the most simple explanation that should have been extremely obvious and is to a lot of people. While they still may think I'm crazy because that point has not come yet, we only lack making public contact as of now, it sure seems pretty obvious, I can bet you that the most simple answer surely isn't, some other country has secret physics laws and secret technology that could solve all energy issues on earth(green energy) and also allow us to explore space, but they just hold on to it, don't take over the world or try to help the world out with their amazing secret physics and technology that all mainstream scientists couldn't even begin to explain how such technology is even possible. If UFO's are secret technology from our country or another, how are they thousands of years ahead of us in the understandings of physics, and do you suggest this magically super advanced country has futuristic cities hidden as well??



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16 Jun 2019, 2:52 pm

There is a simple reason for why UFO sightings are likely not the work of aliens. Faster than light travel is just about impossible by all modern theories of physics. Without faster than life travel it would take hundreds to thousands of years to cross the celestial distance that is likely how far away alien life would be from us.

Unidentified Flying Objects, are just that unidentified. The government saying that they track UFOs, is just saying that they track flying things that they don't know what they are. I guarantee there are a lot of flying objects (of terrestial origin) the government does not know about.


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16 Jun 2019, 3:05 pm

Antrax wrote:
There is a simple reason for why UFO sightings are likely not the work of aliens. Faster than light travel is just about impossible by all modern theories of physics. Without faster than life travel it would take hundreds to thousands of years to cross the celestial distance that is likely how far away alien life would be from us.

Unidentified Flying Objects, are just that unidentified. The government saying that they track UFOs, is just saying that they track flying things that they don't know what they are. I guarantee there are a lot of flying objects (of terrestial origin) the government does not know about.



That's my point. Anything to deny the obvious. Why are people so afraid to admit that aliens are real? It seems like the logical answer, it is the logical answer. Faster than light travel, imagine explaining that to a caveman, imagine explaining our physics to a cave man, it is very possible and likely that other beings exist which are way more advanced than us, meaning their knowledge of physics far surpasses ours, you couldn't even imagine how our physics would be in 100,000 years. Just like us compared to cavemen, we would be the cavemen saying that there is no way to get from point (a) to point (b) faster than an object trailing near the speed of light, to us sure, that would be true, because we aren't advanced enough to even imagine another way, nor would the caveman even understand what light speed is. Saying we don't see how it would be possible is not a legit explanation for me. The alternative at this point is to imagine that another country is aware of physics we couldn't begin to explain. Now, if that country does exist, what prevents them from taking the world over and having advanced cities, advanced energy solutions, advanced flying capabilities, exceeding G-forces that would crush a humans body when looking through the lens of known science.



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16 Jun 2019, 3:15 pm

Just to point out, how far we came since cavemen, that was only about 10,000 years. It's very likely that in 100,000 more years we will have technology we couldn't predict. What if we learn how to open wormholes or something like that? You know, entangled particles manage to communicate with each other instantly, no matter the distance, which completely shatters the light speed rule. They say it doesn't, yet in some way it does, and quantum computer creators have a goal of making computers which communicate with each other using entangled particles which will communicate faster than the speed of light, instantly.



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16 Jun 2019, 3:57 pm

The simplest explanation is that the accounts are inaccurate, but that the government is doing its job investigating a potential threat.


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16 Jun 2019, 4:13 pm

Unidentified (adj): not having a known or established identity
Flying (adj): moving in, or capable of moving in the air
Object (n): something material that may be perceived by the senses

Thus, we have a more colloquial definition that goes something like "A UFO is the subjective perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon land with the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior that do not immediately suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is mystifying to the original alleged 'witnesses'."

Nothing has come from the study of UFOs that has added to scientific knowledge. Further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby. UFOs include meteors, disintegrating satellites, flocks of birds, aircraft, lights, weather balloons, and just about anything moving within the visible band of electromagnetism. So far, however, nothing has been positively identified as an alien spacecraft in a way required by common sense and science -- there has been no recurring identical UFO experience and there is no physical evidence in support of either a UFO flyby or landing.

There are as many photographs of UFOs as there are of the Loch Ness Monster, and they are of equal quality: blurs and forgeries. Oddly, the advent of inexpensive video cameras has corresponded to a decrease in UFO sightings. Other physical evidence, such as alleged debris from alien crashes, or burn marks on the ground from alien landings, or implants in noses or brains of alien abductees, have turned out to be quite terrestrial, including forgeries. The main reasons for believing in UFOs are the questionable interpretations of visual experiences, the testimony of many people, the inability to distinguish science fiction from science, the willingness to trust incompetent men telling fantastic stories, the ability to distrust all contrary sources as being part of an evil conspiracy to withhold the truth, and a desire for contact with the world above.

Belief in aliens and UFOs is akin to belief in supernatural beings. "UFOlogy" is the mythology of the space age. Rather than 'angels', we now have 'extraterrestrials' (ETs) -- the products of creative imaginations. Belief in ETs serves a poetic and existential function, in that it seeks to give insecure humans deeper roots and bearings in the universe; it is an expression of human hunger for mystery and our hope for transcendental meaning. The gods of Mt. Olympus have been transformed into space voyagers, transporting us by our dreams to other realms.

Witnesses to such sightings often claim that what they saw could not be explained by the known laws of physics. They claim to have witnessed a violation of a law of nature (i.e., an alleged 'miracle'). Dan Aykroyd, for example, claims he saw "high altitude, glowing magnesium discs traveling at 20,000 miles (32,190 km) an hour at 100,000 feet (30,480 meters) ... wing to wing, edge to edge." How he determined the alleged composition of the "discs" or calculated their speeds and distances is anyone's guess.

The "Bottom Line" is this: To begin with, most unidentified flying objects are eventually identified as hoaxes or astronomical events, aircraft, satellites, weather balloons, or other natural phenomena. Furthermore, some are not resolved because of inconclusive evidence; when you get right down to it, the witnesses themselves provide no evidence for the extra-terrestrial origins of UFOs other than their own beliefs. Finally, not one single alleged UFO 'sighting' has ever been resolved by putting forth valid evidence that ETs have either flown by or landed on our planet.

Deal with it.


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Last edited by Fnord on 16 Jun 2019, 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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16 Jun 2019, 4:30 pm

I think it’s possible that somewhere out in the universe there’s intelligent life (there certainly isn’t much here), but I have yet to see any evidence that would convince me that aliens have come to earth. If aliens had, one would think we’d see some decent evidence.

There’s lots of comparable evidence out there about ghosts, mermaids, lizard men, the Loch Ness monster, and Bigfoot. Do you think these creatures are also real? You could read hundreds of books, containing pictures and “research,” on each of these topics. You could interview lots of people, too.



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16 Jun 2019, 4:31 pm

Antrax wrote:
The simplest explanation is that the accounts are inaccurate, but that the government is doing its job investigating a potential threat.


Yeah, but from who? Who is the threat that has technology that can out do any known craft we have? The accounts come from many sources, including our military and pilots, the most credible accounts our government has in which through the many years the have stated there are 7 consistent observable features. I don't know all of them, I would have to look them up, but I know the many accounts that are credible and were spotted with radar as well as visual accounts, the pilots all say they seem to be intelligently operated(rules out natural phenomena), they can go from stopping and hovering with no observable means, no jets, no wings, no helicopter blades, to darting off at speeds that seem impossible, keep in mind no visible means of propulsion. They have engaged with them, they seem to be able to easily out maneuver our jets, they have fired on them, no luck in coming close to hitting them. They seem to be able to seemingly vanish and reappear in other places. They can dart off into space, altitudes which our jets cannot follow, though with their speed it would be pointless to try because you would never catch them. Now, which super power has this technology on earth?? China? Russia? Well what are they waiting for, they could easily destroy us, none of our weapons could hit them, none of our jets can keep up with them, we can't prove who they even belong to, so why don't they just completely destroy us and use their dominate technology to dominate our skies and take other countries over? Are you suggesting that they may be waiting for us to attempt to stumble upon the technology they have so it's a fair fight? I think it's pretty obvious that if another country had such advantage they would be using it to do way more than freaking our pilots out by showing them that a whole fleet of our jets wouldn't be able to take even one of them out and it could drop them all in a heartbeat. It makes no sense to keep going back to the denial explanation which to me seems much more radical than just accepting that they are extraterrestrial. Perhaps they came here a long time ago, couldn't begin to imagine when they arrived or if they ever leave, how they travel through space, what they are capable of and the fact that by the repeatedly observable aspects they could easily dominate and country. When taking all that into account it seems the highly unlikely answer is it's a secret incredibly super power that just doesn't feel like striking yet...in over 40 years. I just don't see how people can examine all of this and suggest that that is the case simply because our physics can't come up with an answer of how they may have gotten here. Clearly if another country had such capabilities, we would know because they would be dominating the globe, no one's military would have a chance. Nukes would be worthless, as they, our military, even has accounts of them disarming missiles. It seems that people just can't believe without anything short of an alien walking up to you and saying hey even though alternative possibilities are completely unreasonable and defy the logic in which we on earth work with.



Last edited by Crimadella on 16 Jun 2019, 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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16 Jun 2019, 4:36 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I think it’s possible that somewhere out in the universe there’s intelligent life (there certainly isn’t much here), but I have yet to see any evidence that would convince me that aliens have come to earth. If aliens had, one would think we’d see some decent evidence.

There’s lots of comparable evidence out there about ghosts, mermaids, lizard men, the Loch Ness monster, and Bigfoot. Do you think these creatures are also real? You could read hundreds of books, containing pictures and “research,” on each of these topics. You could interview lots of people, too.
Agreed. ETs are just another example of 'Cryptozoology' as a study of things that have not been proven to exist.

I often wonder what kind of self-delusion someone must be under to take a flying leap for "it is remotely possible" to "it is an absolute certainty. How do they make the connection between 0.000000000000000000001 percent probability and 100% certainty without any valid empirical evidence?


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16 Jun 2019, 4:39 pm

Crimadella wrote:
... Who is the threat that has technology that can out do any known craft we have? The accounts come from many sources, including our military and pilots, the most credible accounts our government has in which through the many years the have stated there are 7 consistent observable features. I don't know all of them, I would have to look them up, but I know the many accounts that are credible and were spotted with radar as well as visual accounts, the pilots all say they seem to be intelligently operated(rules out natural phenomena), they can go from stopping and hovering with no observable means, no jets, no wings, no helicopter blades, to darting off at speeds that seem impossible, keep in mind no visible means of propulsion. They have engaged with them, they seem to be able to easily out maneuver our jets, they have fired on them, no luck in coming close to hitting them. They seem to be able to seemingly vanish and reappear in other places. They can dart off into space, altitudes which our jets cannot follow, though with their speed it would be pointless to try because you would never catch them. Now, which super power has this technology on earth?? China? Russia? Well what are they waiting for, they could easily destroy us, none of our weapons could hit them, none of our jets can keep up with them, we can't prove who they even belong to, so why don't they just completely destroy us and use their dominate technology to dominate our skies and take other countries over? Are you suggesting that they may be waiting for us to attempt to stumble upon the technology they have so it's a fair fight? I think it's pretty obvious that if another country had such advantage they would be using it to do way more than freaking our pilots out by showing them that a whole fleet of our jets wouldn't be able to take even one of them out and it could drop them all in a heartbeat. It makes no sense to keep going back to the denial explanation which to me seems much more radical than just accepting that they are extraterrestrial. Perhaps they came here a long time ago, couldn't begin to imagine when they arrived or if they ever leave, how they travel through space, what they are capable of and the fact that by the repeatedly observable aspects they could easily dominate and country. When taking all that into account it seems the highly unlikely answer is it's a secret incredibly super power that just doesn't feel like striking yet...in over 40 years. I just don't see how people can examine all of this and suggest that that is the case simply because our physics can't come up with an answer of how they may have gotten here. Clearly if another country had such capabilities, we would know because they would be dominating the globe, no one's military would have a chance. Nukes would be worthless, as they, our military, even has accounts of them disarming missiles. It seems that people just can't believe without anything short of an alien walking up to you and saying hey even though alternative possibilities are completely unreasonable and defy the logic in which we on earth work with.
Evidence, please?

So far, your entire argument has been based on assumption, belief, conjecture, delusion, and an utter lack of empirical evidence to support your claim of extraterrestrial intelligence behind even one alleged UFO sighting.


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Crimadella
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16 Jun 2019, 4:43 pm

Fnord, I understand what you are saying, it goes back to, without one stopping and saying hey to you, you would deny that it's anything other than an illusion. That's why I brought up our knowledge now compared to a caveman, good luck convincing the caveman of all that we are capable of. Try to actually look into what the government is saying about them, I also heard a physicist talking about the military accounts that cannot be explained. Surely the military of US can tell a flock of birds from an object which seems to be intelligently operated which has the capability to move in ways which no scientist can explain with no visible observations of propulsion. It seems people would rather go out of their way, anything to deny that it is likely aliens. When I get a little more time, maybe tonight, I will search for information the government has released about them.

It was on FOX news lately, that the pentagon has admitted the thing many other people were already aware of that so many denied in just the same manner as the denial occurring now. It simply moved one step. People who think the government is hiding acknowledgement of UFO's are crazy, o, what's that, they just stated that they in fact have observed and studied(as much as you can an object you can't retrieve) UFO's for over 40 years? Apparently the people labeled as crazy or gullible weren't so crazy after all, being the government just admitted it. It's amazing how a lot of people operate. Anyway, I'll look into the knowledge released by the pentagon.



Last edited by Crimadella on 16 Jun 2019, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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16 Jun 2019, 4:45 pm

Nothing I have seen indicates that these magical craft actually exist. And by the logic of "if this is a hidden earth superpower why haven't done anything yet," "if this is the work of aliens why haven't they done anything yet?"


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16 Jun 2019, 4:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I think it’s possible that somewhere out in the universe there’s intelligent life (there certainly isn’t much here), but I have yet to see any evidence that would convince me that aliens have come to earth. If aliens had, one would think we’d see some decent evidence.

There’s lots of comparable evidence out there about ghosts, mermaids, lizard men, the Loch Ness monster, and Bigfoot. Do you think these creatures are also real? You could read hundreds of books, containing pictures and “research,” on each of these topics. You could interview lots of people, too.
Agreed. ETs are just another example of 'Cryptozoology' as a study of things that have not been proven to exist.

I often wonder what kind of self-delusion someone must be under to take a flying leap for "it is remotely possible" to "it is an absolute certainty. How do they make the connection between 0.000000000000000000001 percent probability and 100% certainty without any valid empirical evidence?


I think there’s a fair amount of cognitive bias. Some people want to believe in this stuff because it’s fun.

Some don’t fully grasp what is or isn’t valid evidence or research, too. Some cryptozoologists and conspiracy theorists can present “evidence” in really compelling ways. Believing one shred of
“evidence” can open up a can of worms to make a person believe a whole host of other nonsense. The next thing you know they’re reading various books with bogus data (i.e. “evidence”).

I’ve also noticed that people who were raised with strange ideas/conspiracy theories are more prone to believing others. I’ve talked with people who had a whole host of bizarre beliefs that had religion as a starting point. 8O



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16 Jun 2019, 4:51 pm

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Crimadella
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16 Jun 2019, 4:51 pm

Antrax wrote:
Nothing I have seen indicates that these magical craft actually exist. And by the logic of "if this is a hidden earth superpower why haven't done anything yet," "if this is the work of aliens why haven't they done anything yet?"


So the pentagon doesn't know what they are talking about? Did you read the articles? They are definitely real and our government seems to be worried about the situation, thinking they are possibly crafts from another country.