Trump wants to deport people here for medical reasons.

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Oh? I'm glad to see we agree on this issue.

Peace in our lifetime

So, I have been thinking about your statements and I have a few questions that may clarify things, if you don't mind.

1. Do we have a choice about where we are born, ie, which country, town, rural, slums, detention camps, etc?

2. Do we have a choice about who are parents are, ie what genetic makeup we are born with?

3. If your mother were dying, hypothetically, and had no insurance, would you let her live with you? Would you help pay her medical bills? Would you look for other sources of help, such as donations?

4. Same question as above, but your mother could live if someone paid her medical expenses?

5. Save question as above, but what if it was your child, your sibling, your cousin.

6. If I haven't reach the limit of your willingness to sacrifice for the benefit of family, how far out would you go? Would you donate a kidney to someone who is not a relative, but you are an exact match for this stranger who will die without a donated kidney? Would you want to help a neighbor? A friend? Someone of your same race, religion, ethnicity?

I understand that you are not willing for theoretical reasons to spend money on the poor or uninsured.

I think we all have ideas about how far out our definitions of family or "who we would help" is and it is worth consideration of what yours (now editorially) might be. I know what Fnord's are because he has posted it in the past. Fnord has a committed system of ethics by which he lives his life and I respect him for that.

What are yours, lovenothate?

There is more to talk about but this is a good start. If you don't feel comfortable answering these questions, that's okay. We can move on to the theoretical. Just let me know. Please. I do appreciate your responses.

Actually, Ezra, when someone takes, as a political decision, that people who are poor and/or sick have the freedom to do so (ie, due to drug addiction, poor medical care, diet); that is something one can take exception to.

It is important that the USA clarify what we want to do as a country. These decisions are already being made, but they are being made piecemeal which turns everything into a muddle.

If we are going to make decisions as to who can afford health care, or live in a safe community, or whatever, then there needs to be an underlying rationale. This is what I think this particular discussion is addressing.

So, if someone makes a post like lovenothate did to me, it is appropriate for someone to make counter-examples.

The counter examples are troubling to people, but I am not sure why. Perhaps you could explain it to me.

Because those are the causes of most poverty and homelessness. Few, if any, make a conscious choice to live on the street without enough food or medical care.

We should be able to care for all Americans. It's just that many on the right would rather see those who they consider to be undeserving get nothing. I have no problem with what Canada has, either.
Just because we help people from abroad who need medical help doesn't mean Americans have to get less medical coverage.

I see plenty of street people who most likey chose to be part of the street drug culture. They are always hanging out in front of the convenience store I shop at. Usually in packs. They have their own society going. There is even a live cam youtube channel of where they congregate called Tweakerville. They are all over Seattle too as seen in another video called Seattle Is Dying. This street culture is all over the country.

Homeless people get plenty of free medical care. There is a homeless WP member who checks into the ER on a regular basis, along with hospital stays and he obviously does not get changed for it.

They do not starve because they get EBT and whatever. They are usually at that 7-Eleven to get $5 pizzas and such. They have it down to a fine science.

How do you know they're so overjoyed with all that?

Oh dear Ezra....please don't perpetuate stereotypes that are just not true
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/homeless ... y_b_669861

Most people are probably not overjoyed with their daily grind.

A Huffington Post article does not establish what the truth is. One thing the author does not adress is why Jerry is homeless. The ones I see the most are on the street because of substance abuse. They can not both hold a job and get high.

Now Jerry says that he chooses to be homeless. So the author points at a guy with a better lifestyle and says, "do you really choose your lifestyle over his?". But that can be done with most people. That's why lotteries exist. Because there is a better lifestyle to be had than most people have. I think in this case choosing can get confused with wishing. A lot of people wish their circumstances were better, but they don't really do anything proactive to make it so.

Some homeless people value their independence. Others are scared of being in shelters. For the vast majority, homelessness was a not a “choice.”

Yes, many of them have been in prison and/or are drug addicts. But many have not. Some are merely mentally ill. Others have been thrown out by their families when young, or were laid off and lost their apartments/houses as a result.

A case-by-case basis is important in assessing a homeless person.

It’s a terrible life for most who are not oblivious. There are people who are oblivious because of advanced mental illness and substance abuse. At least some were made that way through “the homeless life.”

There are those who can not help it and there are those who put themselves where they are. And I think the number of the latter is greater than some want to admit to or believe.

The conservative viewpoint has always been, blame the poor for being poor, and the homeless for being homeless.

And I suppose the liberal viewpoint is to blame the conservatives for it.

You decided to make it personal -- about me -- this is very common for liberal members here.

It comes off as being dishonest.

You don't appear to want to confront the reality of what you propose, so you try and make it seem like I'm a horrible person.