Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

06 Sep 2019, 5:39 pm

So Trump falsified a forecast for Hurricane Dorian from the National Hurricane Center:

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-dorian-h ... ie-1457724

This is actually a violation of 18 U.S. Code § 2074, which can get you up to 90 days in jail:

Quote:
Whoever knowingly issues or publishes any counterfeit weather forecast or warning of weather conditions falsely representing such forecast or warning to have been issued or published by the Weather Bureau, United States Signal Service, or other branch of the Government service, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ninety days, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2074

Now many of Trump's aides are afraid he's beginning to lose his mind:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a ... m=referral


_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

06 Sep 2019, 8:37 pm

Every week, if not every day, there is breaking news saying that Trump broke the law and that he is insane.



ASS-P
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2007
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,980
Location: Santa Cruz , CA , USA

06 Sep 2019, 10:11 pm

...Maybe because he DID break the law and IS insane :P ? :mrgreen: :wink:


_________________
Renal kidney failure, congestive heart failure, COPD. Can't really get up from a floor position unhelped anymore:-(.
One of the walking wounded ~ SMASHED DOWN by life and age, now prevented from even expressing myself! SOB.
" Oh, no! First you have to PROVE you deserve to go away to college! " ~ My mother, 1978 (the heyday of Andy Gibb and Player). I would still like to go.:-(
My life destroyed by Thorazine and Mellaril - and rape - and the Psychiatric/Industrial Complex. SOB:-(! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!


Alterity
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Feb 2019
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 633
Location: New England

06 Sep 2019, 10:31 pm

Technically he did break a law, but nothing will come of it. People are just trying to grasp at any hope he might get ousted.

Does this speak to insanity? Not so much. I'd consider this is within the boundaries of the ridiculousness you can get when one is a gaslighting, narcissistic, childish, dumb arse. When reality doesn't align with his reality he will attempt to alter it or ones perception of it.


_________________
"Inside the heart of each and every one of us there is a longing to be understood by someone who really cares. When a person is understood, he or she can put up with almost anything in the world."


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

07 Sep 2019, 3:53 am

NOAA disavows National Weather Service tweet that refuted Trump's claim Dorian was headed toward Alabama

Quote:
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration on Friday disavowed a tweet from the National Weather Service's Birmingham, Alabama, office that had contradicted President Donald Trump's false assertion that Hurricane Dorian was likely to hit the state.

In a statement attributed to an unnamed NOAA spokesperson, the agency said Trump had been given information from August 28 until Monday that Dorian could impact Alabama.

"From Wednesday, August 28, through Monday, September 2, the information provided by NOAA and the National Hurricane Center to President Trump and the wider public demonstrated that tropical-storm-force winds from Hurricane Dorian could impact Alabama," the statement read. "This is clearly demonstrated in Hurricane Advisories #15 through #41, which can be viewed on the center's website.

"The Birmingham National Weather Service's Sunday morning tweet spoke in absolute terms that were inconsistent with probabilities from the best forecast products available at the time."

Dan Sobien, president of the National Weather Service Employees Organization, lambasted NOAA's characterization of events and defended the agency's employees.

"Let me assure you the hard working employees of the NWS had nothing to do with the utterly disgusting and disingenuous tweet sent out by NOAA management tonight #NOAA," he tweeted Friday.

Later Sunday, Trump repeated his statement.
"And, I will say, the states -- and it may get a little piece of a great place: It's called Alabama. And Alabama could even be in for at least some very strong winds and something more than that, it could be," Trump told reporters at a briefing on the storm. "This just came up, unfortunately. It's the size of -- the storm that we're talking about. So, for Alabama, just please be careful also."

Those mistaken remarks received criticism that apparently irked the President, as he began tweeting criticism of reporters for pointing out that, at the time he was speaking on Sunday, Alabama was not expected to be hit by the storm. On Wednesday, Trump's attempts to prove he was correct veered into the absurd when he showed off an apparently altered map of a forecast from NOAA that showed a black line drawn in marker over Alabama to imply the storm's track would have taken it deep into the Gulf state.

That was followed by multiple tweets from the President attempting to back up his statement, many of which featured outdated forecasts from days before he had made his remarks on Sunday. CNN was first to report on Thursday that Trump also made his case to a Fox News White House reporter that he was right about Dorian's path.


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


Antrax
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,639
Location: west coast

07 Sep 2019, 4:03 am

EzraS wrote:
Every week, if not every day, there is breaking news saying that Trump broke the law and that he is insane.


The thing to remember about the boy who cried wolf is that eventually a wolf did come along. Just because every little thing Trump has done gets blown out of proportion, doesn't mean he hasn't broken a law or that his mental stability is on shaky ground.

It seems in this case Trump violated a minor law. Do I think he should be impeached for breaking a minor law? No. Could a petty congress impeach him for breaking a minor law? Yes they could.

Is Trump's mental stability questionable? In my unprofessional opinion: yes. He seems to be increasingly erratic in the past few months.


_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."


beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

08 Sep 2019, 3:57 pm

Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Every week, if not every day, there is breaking news saying that Trump broke the law and that he is insane.


The thing to remember about the boy who cried wolf is that eventually a wolf did come along. Just because every little thing Trump has done gets blown out of proportion, doesn't mean he hasn't broken a law or that his mental stability is on shaky ground.

It seems in this case Trump violated a minor law. Do I think he should be impeached for breaking a minor law? No. Could a petty congress impeach him for breaking a minor law? Yes they could.

Is Trump's mental stability questionable? In my unprofessional opinion: yes. He seems to be increasingly erratic in the past few months.


What are you talking about? Trump has also committed obstruction of justice and campaign finance violations.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ce/594634/

https://www.justsecurity.org/64975/afte ... planation/

The problem is that Pelosi, who is focused more on following polls than justice, has refused to do anything, not that Democrats have been "crying wolf". Also, Pelosi finds it more convenient to fundraise with Trump in office, since she can use him as a boogeyman, so she doesn't want to get rid of her cash cow.


_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin


Antrax
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,639
Location: west coast

08 Sep 2019, 7:22 pm

beneficii wrote:
Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Every week, if not every day, there is breaking news saying that Trump broke the law and that he is insane.


The thing to remember about the boy who cried wolf is that eventually a wolf did come along. Just because every little thing Trump has done gets blown out of proportion, doesn't mean he hasn't broken a law or that his mental stability is on shaky ground.

It seems in this case Trump violated a minor law. Do I think he should be impeached for breaking a minor law? No. Could a petty congress impeach him for breaking a minor law? Yes they could.

Is Trump's mental stability questionable? In my unprofessional opinion: yes. He seems to be increasingly erratic in the past few months.


What are you talking about? Trump has also committed obstruction of justice and campaign finance violations.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ce/594634/

https://www.justsecurity.org/64975/afte ... planation/

The problem is that Pelosi, who is focused more on following polls than justice, has refused to do anything, not that Democrats have been "crying wolf". Also, Pelosi finds it more convenient to fundraise with Trump in office, since she can use him as a boogeyman, so she doesn't want to get rid of her cash cow.


Reasonable arguments can be made to impeach Trump on the obstruction of justice charges. I think it would politically backfire and is inadvisable, which I believe is also Pelosi's calculation. The republicans had reasonable grounds to impeach Clinton in the 90s (perjury) and it went poorly for them.

That's not what I'm referring to. I am referring to the media's constant wall to wall coverage of everything Trump has said or done, and making big deals out of things that really aren't big deals. One case is the speech at Shell, where they made it seem like the attendance policy was a unique policy for Trump (it wasn't). Another is the Barr party thing, where Barr is spending his own personal money (not the government's) and chose Trump's hotel as his 3rd choice after another hotel cancelled on him.


_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

08 Sep 2019, 7:45 pm

Antrax wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Every week, if not every day, there is breaking news saying that Trump broke the law and that he is insane.


The thing to remember about the boy who cried wolf is that eventually a wolf did come along. Just because every little thing Trump has done gets blown out of proportion, doesn't mean he hasn't broken a law or that his mental stability is on shaky ground.

It seems in this case Trump violated a minor law. Do I think he should be impeached for breaking a minor law? No. Could a petty congress impeach him for breaking a minor law? Yes they could.

Is Trump's mental stability questionable? In my unprofessional opinion: yes. He seems to be increasingly erratic in the past few months.


The thing is, not meaning to shoot you down, is that I have been reading people saying he has become increasingly more unstable recently since the beginning. He was sweating bullets and on the verge of a major breakdown a couple of years ago over the Mueller investigation. He was losing his mind and was going to start WW3 last year. Any minute now he is going to snap. Any minute now he is going to get impeached.

The thing with committing a crime, this week it being meteorology fraud, is there is usually a motive. So what was his motive? My guess he probably did not have anything to do with that extra line being drawn on the chart and was clueless about there being anything wrong with it. Remember he is supposed to be a dotard.



beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

08 Sep 2019, 9:08 pm

Antrax,

Did she say that's why she's not bringing impeachment, that it's because it will make 2020 go poorly? I don't think she ever said anything like that. I think that you are assuming that she's smart and savvy, and just thinking up something that sounds reasonable on the surface and attributing it to her. This was kinda like how Alan Greenspan was treated in the 1990s:

Quote:
Every time I see Nancy Pelosi patiently spell out the higher political wisdom of refraining from impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump, I think of Alan Greenspan. That’s obviously not because the speaker of the House and the famously tight-lipped former Fed chair have any affinities of political outlook or personal temperament. Rather, it’s because as a former financial journalist, I’m reminded of how Greenspan’s observers in the financial industry tended to project all manner of genius onto him simply because he refused to articulate, in any concrete way that involved anything so crass as a narrative, what he was thinking or doing. For market watchers and finance industry savants, Greenspan was a human koan upon which they were expected to puzzle out their own economic enlightenment. If you didn’t get it, you were the idiot.

And now I get the sense that Pelosi’s refusal to articulate her strategy with regard to Trump is being met with the same familiar projection of assumed good faith and competence. Most important, her imputed leadership savvy, like Greenspan’s long pre-crash tour atop the Fed, is routinely taken for granted as the most accurate and astute analysis of The Current Situation that will either one day produce, or is already leading to, a well-thought-out, nimble, and unassailable tactical response.

When people do inexplicable things, it’s always tempting to project qualities onto them that would offer a more innocuous explanation of their behavior than bad judgment, fecklessness, or stupidity. And this particular bias has infected contemporary political analysis with a virulence that rivals Ebola. Even when the subject’s motives are as transparent as Donald Trump’s, there will always be a class of pundit who insists that Trump is playing 3-D chess, when, as one anonymous staffer put it, “more often than not he’s just eating the pieces.”

This reflexive tendency to dress up a posture of inattention as inscrutable cunning applies even more so to people who are smart and capable, or at least have a record of behaving as if they are. What I now think of as The Alan Greenspan Fallacy is pervasive among elites who believe intelligence is synonymous with inevitable progress, realism, and pragmatism. So when Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, an effective and often groundbreaking career politician, refuses to articulate a rationale for failing to hold Trump accountable, she gets the benefit of the doubt, and quite a bit more. When she says something that provokes Trump, or forces him to be defensive, this is read as active management of Trump and not Trump behaving in the reactionary fashion he always does. (This particular brand of savvy being the ability to get “into Trump’s head” as Maureen Dowd put it in her now-notorious interview with Pelosi earlier this month—as though there’s some concrete political victory associated with this cranial burrowing, or, more to the point, as if there’s anything in the big broad world that doesn’t get into Trump’s head.)

Whenever Pelosi claims to have a plan for managing him long term, she’s met with affirmational centrist validation that says she knows what she’s doing—and that any inability to parse her logic must definitionally be a shortcoming on the part of the observer. In short, if Trump is playing 3-D chess, Pelosi must be operating in some more sophisticated double-digit dimension that’s so beyond the ken of regular voters that none of us can possibly comprehend it. Surely there has to be a strategy behind all of this sitting around, claiming to be outraged, and doing nothing.

Pelosi herself has done much to enforce this perception, both with her refusal to communicate her rationale—silence is often mistaken for genius—and by periodically alluding to hypothetical wheels in motion that may or may not exist at all. When forced to comment, she’s fearless, but only in her willingness to insult the intelligence of other Democrats. We’re told that the plan, whatever it is, is working because Trump is “self-impeaching”—a nonsensical claim belied by the daily onslaught of cascading horrors that the administration continues to unleash upon Americans with no consequences whatsoever. (If he is self-impeaching, however that happens, it’s happening so slowly and incrementally that it’s not visible to the naked eye, and it’s doubtful that he’ll have completed the process before the end of a second term.)


https://newrepublic.com/article/154523/ ... si-impeach

Of course, she uses it to fundraise:

Quote:
This has not, of course, stopped her from fundraising off of it. Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee donor inboxes are littered with appeals signed by the speaker to, all caps, stop Trump, as if the critical brake mechanisms are being controlled by donors and not by the officials whose elections they support. It’s like watching a person drown while the lifeguard sits in her tower, performatively noting with alarm that someone is sinking into the sea and surely someone—someone!—must save the swimmer.


She is myopic, and fails to see past the next election, unlike the Republicans who think more long term:

Quote:
None of this is to say that Pelosi is not personally horrified by what’s happening. Perhaps she is. But whatever she’s experiencing is obviously not compelling or severe enough to make her violate her notions of institutional decorum or consider the long-term consequences of looking the other way when the most corrupt, bigoted, and incompetent president in modern history continually escalates his corruptions, bigotries, and incompetence.

Those long-term consequences should be Pelosi’s primary consideration, but here she exhibits an unfortunate flaw of the entire party: the inability to think past the next election cycle.

Democrats, unlike their Republican counterparts, don’t invest longitudinally. They don’t think about voter contact as a long-term relationship that transcends particular electoral cycles. (Anyone who’s been on the receiving end of three-times-a-day bait-and-switch donor emails can attest to this.) They handicap what’s supposedly winnable—the baseline for which is polling at the beginning of the cycle, collected anecdotes, and a lot of bias about what candidates and campaigns should look like—and often at the expense of building any affirmative capacity to alter the actual terms of political engagement. Such thinking doesn’t exercise the imagination of the Democratic Party elite for the simple reason that it rarely pays off in absolute wins over the course of a single cycle.


So in other words, she's allowing all these precedents to be set and not doing anything about them, which will have long term consequences. Sure, we may oust Trump in 2020, but at what cost?

Quote:
Pelosi is no exception to these myopic trends—indeed, she tends to aggressively reinforce them, as one of her party’s premier fundraisers. Nearly every framing device that Pelosi has presented to justify her inaction pivots on the ostensible political cost of initiating impeachment proceedings during the 2020 election cycle. There’s no reckoning with the foreseeable costs or gains of an impeachment process beyond the election. When she does talk about the longer-term damage Trump is doing to American democracy, she speaks in vagaries: “We believe that no one is above the law,” she says, but until the House demonstrates that by enforcing law, it’s a meaningless abstraction.

It’s hard to believe that this is a function of naïveté—a sincere belief that the norms and laws Trump is constantly and gleefully violating will hold up under his repeated assaults. It’s more likely that after decades in politics, Pelosi is only capable of calculating losses and gains electorally. Systemic erosions go unnoticed in the daily chaos of reacting to Trump, and amid this broader state of inertia, they also do not figure in any macro way as part of Pelosi’s theory of change. That is to say, she has not engaged in the necessary public reflection with her caucus leaders or the public at large in order to explain just what should be done to reverse the horrible legacy of our present political moment, and to prevent anything like it from happening again once Trump is out of office.


And her attacks on AOC are part of this myopia:

Quote:
Another side effect of this myopia: the petty internecine attacks Pelosi and her cohort have unleashed on Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib. When everything is a battle and nothing is a war, stupid low-stakes skirmishes break out at an astonishing rate, because there are no coherent long-term goals beyond immediately husbanding the balance of congressional power and getting past the next cycle without a loss. House leadership of course pays lip service to the idea of party unity, but in practice Democratic leaders view unity as a top-down dictum and not a consensus. It’s hard not to see this mandate from on high as of a piece with the fantasy of “self-impeachment”: Both notions involve a maximum amount of institutional condescension with a minimum complement of hard work. True consensus-building within the Democratic caucus would require engaging the freshmen congresswomen who’ve exhibited a level of energy and determination that has galvanized support from typically younger voters who are disillusioned by traditional party politics—the sort of voters who are crucial in forging a majoritarian Democratic coalition over a longer-term time horizon.

Instead, Democratic leadership’s approach to message discipline and party unity has more to do with bad managerial theory than coalition-building: People who can’t be contained safely in the lower compartments of a manageable hierarchy are viewed as a threat, even if, in theory, they are pursuing the same objectives that the threatened management caste is. As a result, they get stigmatized. They are viewed as liabilities instead of opportunities—and their conduct thus gets obsessively scrutinized and disciplined by managers ever mindful of the next potential threat to their own authority.


So I think the Democratic Party needs to think more long term, and not set precedents by letting this kind of criminal behavior simply skate. Sure, if Trump is impeached, he may get acquitted by the Senate, but how do you know for certain unless you tried? And even if he is acquitted, at least you've made the case. We should be focused on the long term ramifications of simply giving up and letting Trump get away with what he has been doing now.


_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin


Antrax
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,639
Location: west coast

08 Sep 2019, 9:58 pm

beneficii wrote:
Antrax,

Did she say that's why she's not bringing impeachment, that it's because it will make 2020 go poorly? I don't think she ever said anything like that. I think that you are assuming that she's smart and savvy, and just thinking up something that sounds reasonable on the surface and attributing it to her.


Perhaps I am, and perhaps it's my own confirmation bias that I think impeachment would be a political mistake by the democrats entering 2020.

I do think Pelosi is a savvy politician. She schooled Trump during the shutdown, when I thought she actually had the weaker position. She has survived in Washington a long time with a lot of people trying to bring her down. Attribute that to her fundraising alone if you must, but I think there's more to it.

I think impeachment against Trump would be seen as a politically motivated overreach. The Mueller report and hearing remain a Rorschach test with people who dislike Trump seeing obstruction and people who like him seeing exoneration. The campaign finance investigation you mentioned earlier is not in the mainstream at all, and most people don't even know about it. Even running with the obstruction, there's only evidence that Trump obstructed justice, not that he actually obstructed justice to cover up anything. While it's certainly a crime, it's on the same level as Bill Clinton's perjury.

I think impeachment would fire up and excite most democrats, but go over poorly with independents and swing voters. It's not just Pelosi, most of the democrats in congress not calling for impeachment are from moderate districts: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... right-now/.

There's a next to 0 chance that Trump is actually removed from office by the Senate, so if your goal is to remove Trump from office, the best way to go about that is to do what's politically best for his 2020 opponent.


_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."


beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

08 Sep 2019, 10:17 pm

Antrax wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Antrax,

Did she say that's why she's not bringing impeachment, that it's because it will make 2020 go poorly? I don't think she ever said anything like that. I think that you are assuming that she's smart and savvy, and just thinking up something that sounds reasonable on the surface and attributing it to her.


Perhaps I am, and perhaps it's my own confirmation bias that I think impeachment would be a political mistake by the democrats entering 2020.

I do think Pelosi is a savvy politician. She schooled Trump during the shutdown, when I thought she actually had the weaker position. She has survived in Washington a long time with a lot of people trying to bring her down. Attribute that to her fundraising alone if you must, but I think there's more to it.

I think impeachment against Trump would be seen as a politically motivated overreach. The Mueller report and hearing remain a Rorschach test with people who dislike Trump seeing obstruction and people who like him seeing exoneration. The campaign finance investigation you mentioned earlier is not in the mainstream at all, and most people don't even know about it. Even running with the obstruction, there's only evidence that Trump obstructed justice, not that he actually obstructed justice to cover up anything. While it's certainly a crime, it's on the same level as Bill Clinton's perjury.

I think impeachment would fire up and excite most democrats, but go over poorly with independents and swing voters. It's not just Pelosi, most of the democrats in congress not calling for impeachment are from moderate districts: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... right-now/.

There's a next to 0 chance that Trump is actually removed from office by the Senate, so if your goal is to remove Trump from office, the best way to go about that is to do what's politically best for his 2020 opponent.


You left much of my argument on the table.


_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin


Antrax
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,639
Location: west coast

08 Sep 2019, 10:46 pm

beneficii wrote:
Antrax wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Antrax,

Did she say that's why she's not bringing impeachment, that it's because it will make 2020 go poorly? I don't think she ever said anything like that. I think that you are assuming that she's smart and savvy, and just thinking up something that sounds reasonable on the surface and attributing it to her.


Perhaps I am, and perhaps it's my own confirmation bias that I think impeachment would be a political mistake by the democrats entering 2020.

I do think Pelosi is a savvy politician. She schooled Trump during the shutdown, when I thought she actually had the weaker position. She has survived in Washington a long time with a lot of people trying to bring her down. Attribute that to her fundraising alone if you must, but I think there's more to it.

I think impeachment against Trump would be seen as a politically motivated overreach. The Mueller report and hearing remain a Rorschach test with people who dislike Trump seeing obstruction and people who like him seeing exoneration. The campaign finance investigation you mentioned earlier is not in the mainstream at all, and most people don't even know about it. Even running with the obstruction, there's only evidence that Trump obstructed justice, not that he actually obstructed justice to cover up anything. While it's certainly a crime, it's on the same level as Bill Clinton's perjury.

I think impeachment would fire up and excite most democrats, but go over poorly with independents and swing voters. It's not just Pelosi, most of the democrats in congress not calling for impeachment are from moderate districts: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... right-now/.

There's a next to 0 chance that Trump is actually removed from office by the Senate, so if your goal is to remove Trump from office, the best way to go about that is to do what's politically best for his 2020 opponent.


You left much of my argument on the table.


I was explaining my perspective, not arguing against yours. But the thesis seems to be: impeachment is the right thing to do, Trump's norms breaking can't go unchallenged, and that the democratic party needs to show faith in the voters.

On the first part it depends on your philosophical persuasion. If you value intents over outcomes than impeachment is likely the right thing to do. If you value outcomes over intents, than you have to consider the likely outcomes.

On the second part, of Trump's norm breaking can't go unchallenged. This is where things get tricky from an outcomes perspective. It's possible impeachment proceedings weakens Trump. It is also possible it strengthens him from centrist backlash against leftist overreach. The only thing worse than not challenging Trump's norm-breaking is challenging it and losing. If he comes out of impeachment stronger than before and wins an election it validates his norm-breaking. If he loses an election in part because of his norm-breaking than it weakens that behavior.

On the third part, I disagree that the democratic party is anymore short-sighted than the republican party. They both actually seem pretty short-sighted.


_________________
"Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power."


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Sep 2019, 8:04 pm

Back to sharpiegate: it was reported today that employees of the National Weather Service were threatened with firing for publicly contradicting Trump's assertions that the hurricane was about to hit Alabama.
Drawing a bulge on a weather map to make people think a hurricane was about to hit Alabama isn't a sign of mental instability, but proof of mental deficiency.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,693
Location: Houston, Texas

09 Sep 2019, 9:53 pm

I would have reported everything correctly, but I would have also drawn balls on Florida.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Sep 2019, 10:11 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I would have reported everything correctly, but I would have also drawn balls on Florida.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer