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vermontsavant
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08 Jan 2020, 7:54 am

Should someone facing jail time for failing to pay child support be entitled to a court appointed lawyer?

The Supreme Judicial court (I'm assuming Massachusetts,but article does not say) on thursday will hear arguments in a case that could create a new right to a court appointed attorney,as of now your only entitled to a lawyer in criminal cases.

In this case,Department of revenue vs. Joshua Grullon argued that he should have been entitled to a court appointed lawyer because he faced jail time.Martin Healy,general council to the Massachusetts bar association,which filled a amicus brief in support Grullon,said the goal is to level the playing field between the dept. of revenue and the person oweing child support.

We recognized whenever an indigent person is facing any type of imprisonment or loss of liberty,they should be entitled to council before they risk that liberty.

masslive.com


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Bravo5150
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08 Jan 2020, 8:20 am

Sounds like something similar in Florida that to my knowledge hasn't been challenged in court. Florida law allows someone with certain types of disabilities, such as autism, to have a psychiatrist or psychologist present during police questioning, but it is the individual's responsibility to pay for the doctor in all occasions.



vermontsavant
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08 Jan 2020, 9:00 am

Bravo5150 wrote:
Sounds like something similar in Florida that to my knowledge hasn't been challenged in court. Florida law allows someone with certain types of disabilities, such as autism, to have a psychiatrist or psychologist present during police questioning, but it is the individual's responsibility to pay for the doctor in all occasions.


In Massachusetts any indigent person can get legal aid,but with legal aid you get a Para legal not a actual attorney,I don't know about whether we allow a doctor during questioning or not.


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Bravo5150
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08 Jan 2020, 9:05 am

vermontsavant wrote:
Bravo5150 wrote:
Sounds like something similar in Florida that to my knowledge hasn't been challenged in court. Florida law allows someone with certain types of disabilities, such as autism, to have a psychiatrist or psychologist present during police questioning, but it is the individual's responsibility to pay for the doctor in all occasions.


In Massachusetts any indigent person can get legal aid,but with legal aid you get a Para legal not a actual attorney,I don't know about whether we allow a doctor during questioning or not.


A legal professional is pretty much standard procedure whether disabled or not. The right to a doctor is a state law in Florida. But my main point about Florida is the fact that it is the suspect or victims responsibility and never the government's responsibility to pay for the professionals services.



kraftiekortie
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08 Jan 2020, 9:14 am

Anybody who is an American citizen (and probably legal alien, too) is entitled to counsel once detained on, or charged with a crime, based on Miranda rights.

This is Federal, and not state-specific.

People who do not pay court-mandated child support are in contempt of court, which is a criminal offense anywhere.



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08 Jan 2020, 9:24 am

The parent who has not received the child support should get the court-appointed lawyer. Let's get real.


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kraftiekortie
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08 Jan 2020, 9:31 am

Absolutely. I agree. No doubt.



vermontsavant
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08 Jan 2020, 9:36 am

Bravo5150 wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Bravo5150 wrote:
Sounds like something similar in Florida that to my knowledge hasn't been challenged in court. Florida law allows someone with certain types of disabilities, such as autism, to have a psychiatrist or psychologist present during police questioning, but it is the individual's responsibility to pay for the doctor in all occasions.


In Massachusetts any indigent person can get legal aid,but with legal aid you get a Para legal not a actual attorney,I don't know about whether we allow a doctor during questioning or not.


A legal professional is pretty much standard procedure whether disabled or not. The right to a doctor is a state law in Florida. But my main point about Florida is the fact that it is the suspect or victims responsibility and never the government's responsibility to pay for the professionals services.
Ok I understand,should the state be required to pay for a doctor,that may be a court case someday.


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vermontsavant
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08 Jan 2020, 9:39 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Anybody who is an American citizen (and probably legal alien, too) is entitled to counsel once detained on, or charged with a crime, based on Miranda rights.

This is Federal, and not state-specific.

People who do not pay court-mandated child support are in contempt of court, which is a criminal offense anywhere.
I believe the question is should they get a lawyer during the legal process before a contempt citation is given.


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vermontsavant
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08 Jan 2020, 9:42 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
The parent who has not received the child support should get the court-appointed lawyer. Let's get real.
I'm sure that will be the next progression if this case goes in favor of Joshua Grullon,victims rights and womens rights advocates will then file in court for the owed parent to have a free lawyer.


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Last edited by vermontsavant on 08 Jan 2020, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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08 Jan 2020, 9:43 am

Nobody is entitled to a free lawyer unless they've been charged with something. Or are being questioned pertaining to possibly being charged with something.

Should he get a lawyer? Of course he should. But it will cost him. I don't believe anybody would go "pro bono" on a person not paying child support. Going "pro bono" means the lawyer works for free.

I am not for men not paying child support. They are creeps, to say the least.



vermontsavant
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08 Jan 2020, 9:48 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Nobody is entitled to a free lawyer unless they've been charged with something. Or are being questioned pertaining to possibly being charged with something.

Should he get a lawyer? Of course he should. But it will cost him. I don't believe anybody would go "pro bono" on a person not paying child support. Going "pro bono" means the lawyer works for free.

I am not for men not paying child support. They are creeps, to say the least.
Sympathy for men who don't pay child support is not the issue,the issue is that if a person faces loss of liberty,does that then give them miranda entitlements?

I am just reporting the news I hold no opinions or sympathies in regards to the legal matter to be decided in this court case.


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IsabellaLinton
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08 Jan 2020, 10:57 am

This question shouldn't have presumptions of gender. There are many women who pay child support to other women, or to men. If there is a court-ordered child support obligation and the payor isn't paying, why should the recipient incur more legal fees to get that money? It seems they've already paid for a court order in the first place, and it isn't being enforced.

Recipient parents shouldn't have to pay legal fees to collect child support which is legally owing for their child. That hurts children and families. The courts should get their act together and put more effort into the enforcement of existing orders, or at best give free counsel to both parties, in the best interest of children.


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08 Jan 2020, 11:09 am

Unfortunately, both Family Court and Tax Court are places where the accused are presumed guilty and rarely are allowed to prove their innocence.  Combine the two, and even Franz Kafka would be awed.


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08 Jan 2020, 11:12 am

Fnord wrote:
Unfortunately, both Family Court and Tax Court are places where the accused are presumed guilty and rarely are allowed to prove their innocence.  Combine the two, and even Franz Kafka would be awed.


If there's a court ordered amount, and they aren't paying, they're guilty. Cut and dry. Otherwise, give the recipient free counsel while a new amount is negotiated for the person who can't afford to pay.


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08 Jan 2020, 11:18 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Unfortunately, both Family Court and Tax Court are places where the accused are presumed guilty and rarely are allowed to prove their innocence.  Combine the two, and even Franz Kafka would be awed.
If there's a court ordered amount, and they aren't paying, they're guilty...
... regardless of mitigating circumstances like unemployment, homelessness, injury, illness, and hospitalization. A man in these situations faces jail time unless he can find some way to pay off the entire debt all at once, including penalties, court costs, and interest.

No wonder they'll accept support payments addressed to "Fiend of the Court".


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