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magz
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28 Sep 2020, 8:03 am

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
I gather in Victoria, they made a trendy decision instead of a rational one.
You have heard of our cafe latte set?

Nope, I drink my coffee black.
Is that some local Australian code for something?


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MrsPeel
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28 Sep 2020, 8:12 am

Thanks for the transcript, Brictoria!

Yeah, if you take a soundbite of that sentence it seems like Flannery's exaggerating.
But I'd still trust Flannery over less knowledgable folk - because he was clearly thinking about long term trends rather than individual La Nina events.

To say that Australia has no issues with drought and water shortages just because we're expecting a lot of rain this year is worse than exaggeration - it's just plain wrong.



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28 Sep 2020, 8:18 am

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
I gather in Victoria, they made a trendy decision instead of a rational one.
You have heard of our cafe latte set?

Nope, I drink my coffee black.
Is that some local Australian code for something?


It's a fancy French word for frothed cream in one's coffee with with artistically designed froth and/or choc coating in the shape of some silly pattern that our local bourgeoisie like to make chit chat over as they discuss the stock market or the ballet



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28 Sep 2020, 8:20 am

MrsPeel wrote:
But I'd still trust Flannery over less knowledgable folk - because he was clearly thinking about long term trends rather than individual La Nina events.


By "less knowledgable folk" do you mean this guy?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51080567



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28 Sep 2020, 8:52 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
I'd like to see the full transcript of what Flannery was saying, it looks like he's been quoted out of context.
He knows a lot more about climate science than Alan Jones, that's for sure.


Post where his predictions have come true. <shrug>

Why is it up to me to supply you the entire transcript?
Isn't that your job? :scratch:
You are questioning my offering, after all.
Google the way I would. 8)



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28 Sep 2020, 9:02 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
Found this interview from 2019 on the ABC, which puts Flannery's comments into better context:

Tim Flannery, how likely are Australian capital cities to end up living permanently under some form of water restrictions?

TIM FLANNERY, CHIEF COUNCILLOR, CLIMATE COUNCIL: Well, look, it depends upon how water is managed.

At the moment what we're seeing is a widespread use of desalination to provide water but that's expensive.

So, you know, Perth gets about half of its water from desal. Adelaide gets up half of its water at various times from desal. Melbourne gets water and we're just about to turn the taps on in the desal plant in Sydney. That will add about $25 to $30 a year cost to water for the average consumer but I guess that's the cost of using it prolifically.

LEIGH SALES: As you mention, Perth and Adelaide are getting about half of their water from desalination plants. Other than the expense, have there have been any lessons learned from that?

TIM FLANNERY: Look, yeah, it is obviously expensive. There can be environmental consequences.

So Perth has had to turn off its desal plant occasionally as very salty water has pooled on the coast, causing environmental problems.

So yeah, there are consequences. I think you're much better off managing your water properly, looking after your climate so you don't have to bear these costs.

LEIGH SALES: How much progress has Australia made into other water efficiency measures?

TIM FLANNERY: Look, by and large, I think we're still fairly poor at managing our water.

The big impacts are going to be in the inland, in our agriculture regions because out there, you can't really utilise desal the way we can on the coast and also, hotter temperatures are making things much more difficult.

So, you know, last summer was the hottest summer on record for Australia, and we also had the third most severe drought, which we're still experiencing. So add those two together and you get a lot of demand, you get a lot of stress on water.

LEIGH SALES: You mentioned high temperatures. Given the pressures of climate change, how likely is it that Australia's dams will ever return to full capacity?

TIM FLANNERY: Well, you know, we have to see. There may be an odd weather event that brings them up to 100 per cent again but by and large, the trend has been for greater evaporation, so less water actually getting into the dams, and less rainfall in southern and eastern Australia.

So those factors together tell us we should manage carefully what we've got.

LEIGH SALES: What are some of the low hanging fruit in terms of better water management in Australia? What could we do fairly easily?

TIM FLANNERY: Well, Brisbane really has led the way in times past in this and what they've done is issued people with their water bills, and in a way that gives them a comparison with their neighbours.

And in that sense, you see how much you're using relative to people around you and I think that spurs on action.

The other thing that Brisbane has done is build a fantastic water recycling plant, again, a common-sense thing to do but last time I looked, that hadn't been utilised because people weren't comfortable with drinking recycled water - slightly crazy given if you visit London, that's what you're drinking.


All that says to me is that he backtracked on what he said previously.

If true, of course he is going to replace his absurd predictions with something more sensible. lol



Last edited by Pepe on 28 Sep 2020, 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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28 Sep 2020, 9:06 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
Thanks for the transcript, Brictoria!

Yeah, if you take a soundbite of that sentence it seems like Flannery's exaggerating.
But I'd still trust Flannery over less knowledgable folk - because he was clearly thinking about long term trends rather than individual La Nina events.

To say that Australia has no issues with drought and water shortages just because we're expecting a lot of rain this year is worse than exaggeration - it's just plain wrong.


Erm,
Sometimes I can be a little thick.
How does Brictoria's transcript support your position? :scratch:



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28 Sep 2020, 9:11 pm

cyberdad wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
But I'd still trust Flannery over less knowledgable folk - because he was clearly thinking about long term trends rather than individual La Nina events.


By "less knowledgable folk" do you mean this guy?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51080567


Irrelevant information.
Yes, Morrison stuffed up with the bushfires, but that has nothing to do with this discussion.
A picture would have sufficed. 8)

Misleading evidence, me lord. 8)



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28 Sep 2020, 9:19 pm

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
I gather in Victoria, they made a trendy decision instead of a rational one.
You have heard of our cafe latte set?

Nope, I drink my coffee black.
Is that some local Australian code for something?


The jibe is about “latte-sipping", "greenie", inner-city dwellers out of touch with farmers.

My view is that they are referring to over-educated, experience-anemic far-leftist ivory-tower-living greenies. :eew: :mrgreen:



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28 Sep 2020, 9:37 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Tim's face must be red, in his property on the coastline. :mrgreen:


To be fair Tim is an palaeontologist who is technically no more qualified than Greta Thunberg or Peter Garrett to debate climate change. He was been appointed chief commissioner of the Australian climate council due to his public profile rather than his expertise.


Anyone who lives in the atmosphere is qualified to debate climate change, why feign political moderation when you're discussing the planet living or dying?

It's called citizen's science.


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28 Sep 2020, 9:50 pm

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
But I'd still trust Flannery over less knowledgable folk - because he was clearly thinking about long term trends rather than individual La Nina events.


By "less knowledgable folk" do you mean this guy?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51080567


Irrelevant information.
Yes, Morrison stuffed up with the bushfires, but that has nothing to do with this discussion.
A picture would have sufficed. 8)

Misleading evidence, me lord. 8)


I'm not blaming Morrison, trying to work out who Ms Peel was talking about



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28 Sep 2020, 9:53 pm

cberg wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Tim's face must be red, in his property on the coastline. :mrgreen:


To be fair Tim is an palaeontologist who is technically no more qualified than Greta Thunberg or Peter Garrett to debate climate change. He was been appointed chief commissioner of the Australian climate council due to his public profile rather than his expertise.


Anyone who lives in the atmosphere is qualified to debate climate change, why feign political moderation when you're discussing the planet living or dying?

It's called citizen's science.


Anyone is qualified except Tim Flannery was appointed the chief commissioner. I have a slight bone to pick with him over his book "Future Eaters" where he claimed the indigenous Australians were responsible for the mass extinction of most mammals in Australia such as megafauna. I thought attributing blame seemed odd, never liked the fellow much.



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28 Sep 2020, 10:12 pm

cyberdad wrote:
cberg wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Tim's face must be red, in his property on the coastline. :mrgreen:


To be fair Tim is an palaeontologist who is technically no more qualified than Greta Thunberg or Peter Garrett to debate climate change. He was been appointed chief commissioner of the Australian climate council due to his public profile rather than his expertise.


Anyone who lives in the atmosphere is qualified to debate climate change, why feign political moderation when you're discussing the planet living or dying?

It's called citizen's science.


Anyone is qualified except Tim Flannery was appointed the chief commissioner. I have a slight bone to pick with him over his book "Future Eaters" where he claimed the indigenous Australians were responsible for the mass extinction of most mammals in Australia such as megafauna. I thought attributing blame seemed odd, never liked the fellow much.


Flannery's credibility is in tatters, and that is on the records, so why not here, though I have no way of knowing for sure.
Thank you, Rudd, for his appointment. <sarcasm> 8)



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28 Sep 2020, 10:26 pm

Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
I gather in Victoria, they made a trendy decision instead of a rational one.
You have heard of our cafe latte set?

Nope, I drink my coffee black.
Is that some local Australian code for something?


The jibe is about “latte-sipping", "greenie", inner-city dwellers out of touch with farmers.

My view is that they are referring to over-educated, experience-anemic far-leftist ivory-tower-living greenies. :eew: :mrgreen:


It is interesting how the people with the greatest seperation from the land (inner city) consider themselves the most "knowledgable" regarding what occurs out there, as well as thinking they are best placed to tell those people whose lives and livlihoods revolve around what happens in the country what they should do and how they should act...



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29 Sep 2020, 4:26 am

cyberdad wrote:
I have a slight bone to pick with him over his book "Future Eaters" where he claimed the indigenous Australians were responsible for the mass extinction of most mammals in Australia such as megafauna. I thought attributing blame seemed odd, never liked the fellow much.


I don't think the idea was to attribute blame so much as to understand - and learn from - the ecological impact of mankind in the past. It wasn't about blaming indigenous Australians so much as mankind in general, I thought?
I mean, the same thing happened in New Zealand with the loss of megafauna after the Maori arrived. He wasn't saying that the indigenous Australians were unique in that respect.



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29 Sep 2020, 4:40 am

Pepe wrote:
Erm,
Sometimes I can be a little thick.
How does Brictoria's transcript support your position? :scratch:


We're never going to agree on this Pepe!

But in case you are genuinely wanting to know, when you put the quote in context it is clear that Flannery is talking about long term climate trends, not yearly variations in the weather.
In essence he is saying that increased warming over the long term will increase evaporation, so he expects there will be more severe droughts in which the rainfall which does fall does not reach the rivers.

The trouble is, it was a verbal interview, so he tried to get to the essence of the issue without bogging things down in explanation.
I'm sure what he said was not intended to be a prediction that "from now on none of the rain will reach the rivers and the dams will never be full ever again".
Seriously, when has he said that?