MN Supreme Court reverses rape conviction because woman.....

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salad
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25 Mar 2021, 10:17 pm

because woman was voluntarily drunk instead of forcibly drunk.

Which I find stupid as hell :x :x :x

Quote:
The Minnesota Supreme Court has ordered a new trial for a man convicted of raping a woman who was drunk. The justices ruled that the state's definition of "mentally incapacitated" does not include voluntarily inebriated victims.

Hennepin County prosecutors say that in May of 2017, Francois Khalil encountered a woman outside a Dinkytown bar who’d just consumed five shots of vodka and a prescription narcotic. Khalil invited her and a friend to a party.

Court documents say Khalil and two other men drove them to a house in Minneapolis, where there was no party. The woman, identified only by her initials, testified that she blacked out on the couch and later woke up to find Khalil raping her.

In 2019, a jury in Hennepin County convicted Khalil of third-degree criminal sexual conduct involving a victim who was impaired.

But Wednesday, the Minnesota Supreme Court overturned his conviction, ruling that the state’s legal definition of “mentally incapacitated” only applies if a victim was given drugs or alcohol against their will — not if they consumed the substances voluntarily.

Khalil’s attorney Will Walker said the justices agreed with his contention that the trial judge gave incorrect instructions to the jury.

“They adopted our arguments. They adopted the opinion of the 30-page dissent from the Court of Appeals, and my arguments from the trial court and came out with the correct ruling. And we’re very, very pleased about that,” Walker said.

Khalil, now 24, is serving a five-year sentence at the Faribault state prison, but Walker said his client may soon be released.

Writing for a unanimous court, Justice Paul Thissen said because the meaning of the statute is clear “we apply that meaning and not what we may wish the law was or what we think the law should be.”

Thissen noted that the Minnesota Legislature is “institutionally better positioned than courts” to make public policy, and pointed to efforts to overhaul the criminal sexual conduct statute.

Survivors of sexual assault are urging Minnesota lawmakers to close what they say is a big loophole in state law.

Lindsay Brice, law and policy director at the Minnesota Coalition Against Sexual Assault, said the ruling was no surprise because the statute’s language doesn’t leave much room for interpretation.

“It makes it very clear that this issue needs to be fixed at the Legislature,” Brice said.

DFL Rep. Kelly Moller of Shoreview is sponsoring legislation that would change the law to say that anyone who’s intoxicated is incapable of consenting to sex even if they consumed alcohol or drugs voluntarily. Moller, who’s also an assistant Hennepin County attorney, said this would give prosecutors additional tools.

“This is something that will make a difference for those who do come forward and have these sets of circumstances, that their cases will at least be chargeable.”

Abby Honold, a sexual assault survivor and advocate, says this intoxication loophole has been a problem for years. She says it’s a roadblock for survivors seeking to press charges who have an otherwise solid case.

“There are a lot of people who are told when they report now, and when their case is referred to a prosecutor that essentially their sexual assault was technically legal. It’s always so heartbreaking to have to hear that from yet another survivor who came forward and reported,” Honold said.

Among other things, Moller’s bill would also create a new crime of sexual extortion, where a perpetrator makes threats that do not involve physical harm. The measure also raises the age in certain offenses against juveniles from under 13 to under 14.

While the bill has bipartisan support in both chambers, its companion measure in the Senate has yet to go before a committee.



https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/03/2 ... -get-drunk

Thoughts?


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IsabellaLinton
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25 Mar 2021, 10:24 pm

Don't even start me.


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cyberdad
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25 Mar 2021, 10:27 pm

I assume the judge or the state law might need some revising



salad
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25 Mar 2021, 10:28 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Don't even start me.


You know something is messed up when IsabellaLinton sounds menacingly angry over it.

And that makes sense because this got me riled up too


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Brictoria
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25 Mar 2021, 10:48 pm

As was stated in the article:

Quote:
Writing for a unanimous court, Justice Paul Thissen said because the meaning of the statute is clear “we apply that meaning and not what we may wish the law was or what we think the law should be.

Thissen noted that the Minnesota Legislature is “institutionally better positioned than courts” to make public policy, and pointed to efforts to overhaul the criminal sexual conduct statute.


Looking at the approrpiate definitions:
Quote:
Subd. 7.Mentally incapacitated.

"Mentally incapacitated" means that a person under the influence of alcohol, a narcotic, anesthetic, or any other substance, administered to that person without the person's agreement, lacks the judgment to give a reasoned consent to sexual contact or sexual penetration.

Source: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.341

It does seem to be a very unfortunate oversight (or designed that way?) that "mental incapacitation" is dependant on the accused's actions, and not the accuser's condition at the time, but as was written in the judgement, the courts are required to follow the law, not make/alter existing laws, so they didn't really have much alternative.

Unfortunately, badly written\outdated laws result in these outcomes, and the blame for the outcome resides with the legislature for creating\allowing to remain in place laws which do not reflect people's expectations (for the most part), not with the Judicial branch who are required to abide by the laws as created/updated by the legislative branch.

The problem is seperating the "legal" result (which is what the Judicial branch is responsible for) from the "just" result for the accuser (which is what people desire) - Whilst ideally they would be the same, in cases such as this, that isn't always what results.



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25 Mar 2021, 10:54 pm

A red state would try to find ways to punish her for her alleged “adultery”.


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Brictoria
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25 Mar 2021, 10:58 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
A red state would try to find ways to punish her for her alleged “adultery”.


Given there are a number of "red states" - Can you point out examples of laws in any of them which do this?



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26 Mar 2021, 12:15 am

That decision is so stupid it's evil.


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Tim_Tex
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26 Mar 2021, 12:47 am

Brictoria wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
A red state would try to find ways to punish her for her alleged “adultery”.


Given there are a number of "red states" - Can you point out examples of laws in any of them which do this?


They only focus on “she had sex with someone she wasn’t married to”. 99.9999999% of women who are raped aren’t raped by their husbands.


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cyberdad
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26 Mar 2021, 12:54 am

Brictoria wrote:
"Mentally incapacitated" means that a person under the influence of alcohol, a narcotic, anesthetic, or any other substance, administered to that person without the person's agreement, lacks the judgment to give a reasoned consent to sexual contact or sexual penetration.



So basically if you slip her a "roofie" your a rapist.

If the girl is already drunk of her own volition then she's allowed herself to be open for sex without consent?

How does that exactly work in the minds of the founding fathers who wrote that law?



Brictoria
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26 Mar 2021, 2:03 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
"Mentally incapacitated" means that a person under the influence of alcohol, a narcotic, anesthetic, or any other substance, administered to that person without the person's agreement, lacks the judgment to give a reasoned consent to sexual contact or sexual penetration.



So basically if you slip her a "roofie" your a rapist.

If the girl is already drunk of her own volition then she's allowed herself to be open for sex without consent?

How does that exactly work in the minds of the founding fathers who wrote that law?


Who said it was them who wrote it...The statute would have to pre-date the offence being tried (and in fact was set pre 1994: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/table2?search_term=609.341&year=all), but that doesn't mean that the "founding fathers" had anything to do with its creation...Further research suggests it was created with that wording in 1975: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/1975/0/Session+Law/Chapter/374/pdf/ if I understand the document correctly.

The fact that it exists in the current form would indicate that no-one without a reason to see it retained with that wording was aware of the potential loophole and there had been no incidents (at least ones attracting publicity) where it had an impact on the case (a common way for laws to be changed is via unfortunate cases such as this where the wording of the statute doesn't match the public understanding\expectation of the crime it is related to, rather than lawmakers reviewing existing laws to seek out potential issues before they have an impact like this did).

On a basic reading of the law, as long as the potential victim is aware of the substance being administered and agrees to it, anything that follows on from that is not covered by this statute, which makes me wonder if in similar circumstances in the past charges hadn't been pressed as a result of the wording, and so that may be why it was retained with that wording for so long - there would be much less publicity to bring it to the attention of the legislature and so have it updated.



cyberdad
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26 Mar 2021, 4:22 am

Brictoria wrote:
On a basic reading of the law, as long as the potential victim is aware of the substance being administered and agrees to it, anything that follows on from that is not covered by this statute, which makes me wonder if in similar circumstances in the past charges hadn't been pressed as a result of the wording, and so that may be why it was retained with that wording for so long - there would be much less publicity to bring it to the attention of the legislature and so have it updated.


Could it be in the 17th century women who agreed to consume liquid libation of the alcoholic persuasion were no doubt wenches of unsavoury character and worthy of a trist?

And in America laws seem to be so hard to change....



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26 Mar 2021, 4:30 am

Getting voluntarily drunk does NOT justify rape!

a) Getting drunk is not a crime. Rape is.
b) Even if getting drunk was a crime, rape would not be an appropriate punishment
c) Two wrongs don't make it up to right
d) When she got drunk she wasn't told it was a package deal
e) We been through it before and I thought we all agreed that raping someone drunk is still a rape. Why is it that we have to go to square 1 with it and start this discussion all over again?! Especially with the court actually deciding something just the OPPOSITE to what I thought was an established common wisdom?!



cyberdad
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26 Mar 2021, 4:32 am

QFT wrote:
Getting voluntarily drunk does NOT justify rape!

a) Getting drunk is not a crime. Rape is.
b) Even if getting drunk was a crime, rape would not be an appropriate punishment
c) Two wrongs don't make it up to right
d) When she got drunk she wasn't told it was a package deal
e) We been through it before and I thought we all agreed that raping someone drunk is still a rape. Why is it that we have to go to square 1 with it and start this discussion all over again?! Especially with the court actually deciding something just the OPPOSITE to what I thought was an established common wisdom?!


Tell this to the MN judge



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26 Mar 2021, 4:48 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
On a basic reading of the law, as long as the potential victim is aware of the substance being administered and agrees to it, anything that follows on from that is not covered by this statute, which makes me wonder if in similar circumstances in the past charges hadn't been pressed as a result of the wording, and so that may be why it was retained with that wording for so long - there would be much less publicity to bring it to the attention of the legislature and so have it updated.


Could it be in the 17th century a woman who agreed to consume liquid libation of the alcoholic persuasion were no doubt wenches of unsavoury character and worthy of a trist?


Not sure what relevence the 17th century has to this... As was noted in that reply:
Brictoria wrote:
Further research suggests it was created with that wording in 1975: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/1975/0/ ... r/374/pdf/ if I understand the document correctly.


Looking deeper into this I found the previous law, which this replaced in 1975:
609.291 - Aggravated rape - "victim is unconcious...and the condition is known or reasonably should have been known to the actor" - sub section (3)
609.292 - Rape - "victims will to resist is destroyed by drug or intoxicant and the condition is known or reasonably should have been known by the actor" - sub section (3)
Source: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/1974/cite/609/pdf (page 15 of the PDF)

Looking at the reporting:
Quote:
The woman, identified only by her initials, testified that she blacked out on the couch and later woke up to find Khalil raping her.


As such, under the law that was present in 1974, there would likely have been grounds for a guilty verdict on either of these possible charges, with "aggravated rape" being the more severe and having a 30 year maximum term of imprisonment.

It seems the legislature in 1974/1975 were the people who created this loophole...



cyberdad
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26 Mar 2021, 4:54 am

wait....are you sure you aren't a lawyer Brictoria Image