Trial of Derek Chauvin, who Killed George Floyd

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Cornflake
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20 Apr 2021, 5:21 pm

Before the verdict was announced the BBC, with a couple of US legal spokespeople, were expressing surprise at the speed of the jury deliberations (11 hours IIRC) and that they had no questions for the court.
All agreed that this likely meant a guilty verdict on all charges - and so it was.

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kraftiekortie
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20 Apr 2021, 5:30 pm

Yep....it was a very quick verdict....a no-doubter.....

ASPartOfMe
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20 Apr 2021, 7:04 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Sorry...that's high level sarcasm

Well, if I was better at judging sarcasm I wouldn't be here. :mrgreen:

Touche
Don't feel bad, I thought he meant it literally also.

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20 Apr 2021, 7:05 pm

ASAN Statement

Quote:

Last year, former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd, a Black man, by kneeling on his neck for nine and a half minutes. This murder was inexcusable, and part of a systemic pattern of police violence that disproportionately affects Black people and other people of color in the United States, particularly Black people with disabilities.

Today, a jury ruled that George Floyd’s killer was guilty of second degree murder, third degree murder, and manslaughter — all of the charges that had been brought against him. We are relieved to see these convictions, but they represent only the smallest measure of accountability for George Floyd’s murder and the overwhelming threat of police violence in our country. We have much further to go. Justice cannot be reached with one verdict — we must work toward justice by transforming our society to end the ongoing crisis of anti-Black police violence that presents a daily threat to so many of our community members.

Today, our Black disabled community members are still in pain — and in danger. Despite the overwhelming evidence against Floyd’s murderer, due to a long history of failure to hold police accountable for racist violence, it was impossible to trust that his murderer would be found guilty. While we receive the news of Chauvin’s conviction, the community is still grieving the losses of Adam Toledo and Daunte Wright, two more disabled people of color murdered by police in recent weeks. Police violence presents an ongoing threat to our communities, and today’s verdict, though welcome, will not end that threat. To truly address the crisis of police violence, we must pursue systemic solutions.

We must reckon with the racist roots of policing in our country, which are still evident today. We must work to defund police departments and invest in approaches to community safety that provide alternatives to the police and the criminal legal system, including access to community-based crisis services and other community initiatives that reduce interactions with police. We must hold police accountable for murders, assault, harassment and intimidation, including by ending qualified immunity, which prevents victims of police violence from holding police accountable in court. We must demilitarize police departments and use community oversight to make police accountable to the communities in which they operate. This is work that all of us need to devote ourselves to in order to create a safer, more just world. Disability organizations must follow the leadership of disabled people of color, stop putting forward police training as a solution to police violence, and get serious about taking away the power of police to do harm.

ASAN remains heartbroken and outraged by the effects of police violence on our Black community members — the lives lost, families left grieving, and the trauma that violent and racist policing continues to inflict every day. Today’s verdict cannot return George Floyd’s life to him. We are committed to continuing the fight for a world that is safe and just — for all of us.

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20 Apr 2021, 7:24 pm

Chauvin faces a maximum sentence of 40 years.

However, guidelines for someone like Chauvin suggest 12 years.
https://nypost.com/2021/04/20/heres-how ... vin-faces/

"In Minnesota, defendants typically serve two-thirds of their penalty in prison, with the rest on parole"
https://www.wivb.com/news/derek-chauvin ... jail-time/

So, Chauvin is likely to serve 8 years.

Prosecutors will likely ask for more time, and the defense will ask for less.

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ironpony
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20 Apr 2021, 8:24 pm

One thing I am surprised about is him being found guilty of the 1st degree murder charge. I thought in order for that charge to qualify, it had to be pre-meditated, unless maybe it was in this case?

funeralxempire
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20 Apr 2021, 8:27 pm

ironpony wrote:

One thing I am surprised about is him being found guilty of the 1st degree murder charge. I thought in order for that charge to qualify, it had to be pre-meditated, unless maybe it was in this case?

He wasn't found guilty of first degree murder; second degree, third degree and second degree manslaughter.

Even if a plausible case for first degree murder charges could be made there's no way it would have stuck and would have been much more work to even assemble and would have distracted from the much clearer case they did present.

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Last edited by funeralxempire on 20 Apr 2021, 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ironpony
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20 Apr 2021, 8:27 pm

Oh my mistake, I thought it was 1st degree and second degree murder. My mistake.

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20 Apr 2021, 9:00 pm

The one thing I read that I find highly suspicious about the case, is the pathologists changing their mind on the autopsy once they saw the videos. I am not saying Chauvin should is innocent or anything. I firmly believe in his guilty verdict. But I find what the pathologists had to say, troubling.

Are pathologists allowed to change an autopsy finding, if new evidence comes in that is video, and not medical? Are the naked eyes more accurate than what medical science can show?

Last edited by ironpony on 20 Apr 2021, 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

funeralxempire
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20 Apr 2021, 9:09 pm

ironpony wrote:

If the body doesn't show an obvious indication they're forced to guess based on what they can determine might have been relevant. The video provides a pretty clear explanation of what happened, whereas the traces of opioids in the system of a habitual user is only the next best explanation possible.

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20 Apr 2021, 9:12 pm

But I thought these pathologists are suppose to really good at determining a cause of death though, and thus that is why they are taken so seriously.

Let's say for example, a DNA expert was analyzing DNA in a murder scene, and he got an ID on the DNA, but not murderer to match the DNA with yet. Then later, the DNA expert sees a video of the murder that was found, and sees that someone else did it and it turns out that that arrested person's DNA did not match. Would the DNA expert say, "well even though my DNA results say it is someone else, I can see on the video that it's this guy, so that means it must be this guy!" Doesn't that make you wonder how good the DNA expert is then?

Or is that too different of a comparison?

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20 Apr 2021, 9:22 pm

ironpony wrote:

They're not wizards, they're only ever making educated guesses so don't go thinking it works like CSI.

In your example the DNA would be proof that the body had the DNA recovered from it recovered from it, not evidence of how it got there. If there was a video clearly depicting someone else committing homicide against that person the DNA evidence might link a person to have had contact with the victim but not proof that they were involved with the homicide. The video would be pretty clear evidence of what caused the homicide with the DNA quite likely being irrelevant.

(You hook up with one of those ladies from work, she gets murdered after leaving your place, your DNA might be in her but how's that relevant to the murder?)

In this case the drug use was irrelevant, even the experts have said so. The way Floyd was killed doesn't tend to leave a lot of physical signs besides the bruising from being held down. Both asphyxiation and opioid overdose can cause the heart to stop and with nothing to confirm asphyxiation except for a video the physical examination was forced to consider the next best explanation even if it wasn't a good one, which is why no one continued to argue for that explanation after seeing the video except for the people hired to defend the killer.

Of course the defence is going to grasp at straws, that's why they get paid the ginormous bambis

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20 Apr 2021, 9:24 pm

Oh okay, but it was said before on here, in the other thread I thought, that in order for aphyxiation to happen, there would be marks from it. Since there are no marks, that means axyphixiation could not have happened, or at least that was what was said earlier I thought.

What about this example instead. Someone is shot to death, the bullet is left inside the body, and a ballistic expert examines the bullet. The bullet is a 9mm. But later he sees a video, and sees that the gun used is .44 caliber revolver, and not only the calibre does not match the weapon in the video, but the grooves on the bullet do not match the revolver's either.

Is he going to change his stance on his findings once he sees the video?

Last edited by ironpony on 20 Apr 2021, 9:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

funeralxempire
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20 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm

ironpony wrote:

That's what Robot said and that was addressed at the time. It's true of some forms of asphyxiation, it's not true of all forms.

It's pretty clear he didn't suffer asphyxiation in a manner that would result in those signs. He wasn't strangled or garroted.

funeralxempire
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20 Apr 2021, 9:28 pm

ironpony wrote:

In that case it would be more likely a matter of misidentification or modification of the firearm.
It doesn't really make a good analogy other than it demonstrates 'experts can make mistakes'.

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20 Apr 2021, 9:31 pm

Oh okay, I guess I just feel that the testify of the pathologists was suspect, but you cleared it up more . But is it true that tempors among protestors in the streets are still high, even though he was found guiltly which is what I thought they and all of us wanted?

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