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magz
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14 Oct 2021, 12:30 pm

I do have patriotic feelings... unfortunately. Right now, it's burning shame.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fo ... 021-10-14/

I understand Lukashenko is weaponizing migration. I understand we need to protect our border.

But not letting humanitarian organizations into the crisis zone? 8O Letting people die on our ground in hope that if you don't let newspeople there no one would know??? 8O
That puts us in one line with Putin and Lukashenko :( Or even worse.
It's burning shame. Burning shame on me as Polish :(


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DW_a_mom
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14 Oct 2021, 4:51 pm

Sorry to read this. Living in the US, the facts obviously vary, but the idea my country isn't living up to its moral obligations ... I can relate.


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14 Oct 2021, 5:25 pm

Most migrants don't seem to want to stay in Poland and are more interested in travelling to Germany.
It is interesting that the Polish authorities don't simply ferry immigrants there.



magz
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15 Oct 2021, 2:25 am

Pepe wrote:
Most migrants don't seem to want to stay in Poland and are more interested in travelling to Germany.
It is interesting that the Polish authorities don't simply ferry immigrants there.
They wouldn't need to do even that much - just not guarding the immigrants efficiently enough would do.
Most of these immigrants, if I'm to trust organizations working with them, have some family members in Western Europe and are trying to get to them.
It's a power trip between Lukashenko and Kaczyński and, unfortunately, it's played on Lukashenko's rules.
Oh, and there will be a massive fraud with wall building - the legislation which disables standard procedures "to make it faster" is setting perfect ground for it and the people in power have quite a history of massive frauds.


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kraftiekortie
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15 Oct 2021, 6:23 am

Sorry you’re going through this stuff, Magz.



magz
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15 Oct 2021, 6:38 am

Personally, I'm not going through hard times. People on the border are. I'm just worried seeing things going a very wrong direction. And - having some feelings of shared national identity - I'm ashamed. Best I can do is support the few organisations that try to help these people despite the ban.
What a horrible irony of the history!


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kraftiekortie
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15 Oct 2021, 7:34 am

We, who are the forces of progressive evolution, must stem the dictatorial tide.



magz
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15 Oct 2021, 7:55 am

Wow, that sounds solemn! :)

I just think that dehumanization is the foundation of the most evil deeds done by regular people - and I see another group dehumanized in my state propaganda and I know a lot of people buy it.

It's terrifying. I'm not nearly as scared of being targeted by the bad guys as I am of becoming the bad guys. And I don't mean being imperfect, wrong, disliked etc. I mean doing really bad things.
Like forbidding to help so people die.


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kraftiekortie
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15 Oct 2021, 8:02 am

I just hope people are able to see through the ruses of the right-wing parties.

As you know, there was much resistance in Belarus to what happened during its last election. In light of this, I feel hopeful that the forces of progressive thought will, eventually, win

We, in the US, are lucky we have don't have to deal with what's been going on in central and eastern Europe----except for a man like Trump.



magz
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15 Oct 2021, 8:17 am

You know, I don't want to see it as a left-wing vs right-wing or conservative vs progressive thing.
I think any faction is at risk of turning to evil without noticing it, especially in escalated conflict.
That's why I focus on boundaries - and boundaries I find fundamental have been crossed again by "my" people :(


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kraftiekortie
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15 Oct 2021, 8:19 am

I didn't mean "progressive" in a political sense. I meant it as a mode of thought.

I am most aware that both "left wing" and "right wing" ideologies have reeked of fascism and autocracy.



magz
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15 Oct 2021, 9:24 am

Mindset... I guess my mindset is cauciously progressive, meaning - we can't avoid the world changing so let's try to make the changes to be for the better as much as we can. Also, "progress" is never a bright straight path to follow. It's always exploring the Unknown, full of both opportunities and dangers. You have to be both brave and caucious.

Anyway - some day I may be a migrant. Will some countries play me like a ping-pong ball in freezing swamps, the way "our" and Belarussian border guards do?
Why so many people can't imagine they and their relatives may find themselves in such a situation some day?


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kraftiekortie
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15 Oct 2021, 9:55 am

Why might you be a migrant?

Do you feel Poland is really going down the "rabbit hole"?



magz
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15 Oct 2021, 10:14 am

Different things may happen. I'm living in exceptionally peaceful and prosperous time for the region. It may last. It may not. This place in the middle of European Lowlands have always been turbulent.
The history is full of emigration from Poland. So, it's not unimaginable to me that some day me or my children find themselves seeking safety in other countries.
Nothing particular right now. Just - I can totally imagine myself in the migrants' shoes.


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16 Oct 2021, 6:11 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Several off-topic posts were removed - please, do try and remain on-topic.


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magz
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16 Oct 2021, 6:17 am

Thanks :oops:


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