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QuantumChemist
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27 Nov 2021, 11:17 am

magz wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Could we destroy the virus with radiation like we do with cancer?
Not without killing the patient in the process. The viruses are usually well spread in the body.
The point of curing diseases is not just to kill the pathogens but to do it without harming the ill person more than the pathogens do.


It becomes a catch-22 if you use radiation to damage the virus outside the body too much. UV (and higher energy) light will deactivate it most of the time. The many photons of light break chemical bonds that hold the virus together. The issue is that it can actually cause mutations to the virus if it does not become deactivated (did not break the right bonds). Those that survive the damage may change genetically. We use UV light to sanitize hospital rooms often.

It is similar to what happens to bacteria and certain types of soap. If you exposed bacteria to “anti-bacterial” soap too much, the few surviving bacteria can mutate to a form that becomes resistant to those particular chemicals over time. Viruses cannot mutate to become totally resistant to light energy, but they will still try to do so with their genetic strains. The byproducts of this process may be much more deadly than the original strain.



QuantumChemist
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27 Nov 2021, 11:25 am

Tim_Tex wrote:

Austria and Germany have made vaccines mandatory for all citizens. I recommend all other countries do the same.


It would only stop part of the problem. The new strain is not deactivated by the current version of the vaccines. We now have to develop a new vaccine to fight this strain. The previous vaccine development does help us out a bit. Unfortunately it will take time to figure this process out correctly for the new strain and then manufacture the new version of vaccine. We cannot make an adaptable shot to fix all possible variations in situ. It would be nice if we could.



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27 Nov 2021, 12:07 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Nades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Nades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
f**k another one...?


Yip. We'll be going round in circles until we spew. It's making me question whether I should get a booster when my time comes and I'm asked.

When the pandemic first started we were all told that the vaccines will get us out of the woods (in the UK at least). Fast forward two years and even fully vaccinated people here can be treated like utter s**t by their communities for daring to step out of line.

Granted this new strain seems to have come about from a lack of vaccination in South Africa.....but my confidence in the vaccine is starting to rapidly plummet.


They found a vaccine for the original virus.
I don't see why they can't for the new one, if it is needed.
They have head start in developing one, now.

Look on the bright side.
Pharmaceutical companies will make even *bigger* profits! :thumright:
Psst! Buy their shares. ;)


They can but it's always going to be an endless game of catch-up for decades. I'm still baffled as to why people honestly think they can kick this virus to the curb. It never will be kicked to the curb and everyone needs to learn to live with and most importantly, expect it to claim family members and friends eventually.

I for one got vaccinated in good faith only to still be told "were not out of the woods yet" about 50 times. Not only that but I also never envisioned fully vaccinated people still being called health liabilities. I say health liabilities, it's usually fully vaccinated people being called a w****r, c**t, a****le, p***k, d******d or murderer by their own community for having the audacity to take their masks off for a sense of normality in their lives.

If this is what I have to look forward to boosters or not, then I don't see any point in getting further vaccines including the booster for this new strain.

Conspiracy theorizing and online misinformation gets blamed for vaccine hesitancy and those factors have a lot to do with it. Inconsistent messaging by public health officials from the get go IMHO probably also has a lot to do with it. In this day and age this is interpreted as nefarious conspiracies to control the population. There are other possible explanations. As a new virus early beliefs are often proven incorrect. These public health officials are often reluctant to say “We do not no know what is going on you are on your own” for a number of reasons. It could be they believe that public could not handle that. In an era where we expect to go online and get instant solutions they may be right. Or it might be fear their bosses might say “You can’t figure it out, I am going to hire somebody who can”.

Even if you are correct and we will be forever trying to catch up and it is going to kill us eventually if a vaccine can prevent or mitigate COVID until the next variant makes that vaccine worthless the extra time gained is worth it.


There are a few reasons why I'm hesitant about getting a booster.

Firstly the vaccine isn't what it cracked up to be. It only lasts about a year and infections still seem to be rampant though deaths are relatively low. About 1 in 64 people in the UK had the virus recently which is far higher than I would expect for a well vaccinated population. I think the vaccine is marginal at best. Cuts back on deaths to an extent but does little to control the spread.

Another reason is that the vaccine was clearly hailed as the only way of getting back to normality by high level government. Fast forward 2 or even 3 jabs later for most of the population in the space of just a year and we're still "not out of the woods"...... How many vaccines are each individual expected to get?Having this many "essential" vaccines in such a short space of time for a single virus is unheard of throughout medical history and it still isn't enough.

The last reason is the community itself. A "them" and "us" mentality has developed. Those who are hardcore "we must do everything to stop this virus spreading" having varying levels of hatred to those who are well meaning, got jabbed and want to lead a normal life. Some of the abuse I've seen directed at fully vaccinated people for not wearing masks makes me want to just give up on taking any measures whatsoever against it. If I have to protect those abusive morons by getting jabbed then i would rather let it spread and be done with it. (Not that the vaccines seem to be doing much to prevent spread anyway)

Simply. If getting vaccinated is a thankless task then why bother.



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27 Nov 2021, 12:17 pm

Nades wrote:
Simply. If getting vaccinated is a thankless task then why bother.

Mostly to prevent collapse of NHS.
That's what's happening here, with a lot of vax resistance and largely ignored safety measures, including among older people. People don't get treated for other illnesses because resources are pumped to covid patients.

Singapore chose another strategy - people who chose not to take the jab pay for covid treatment out of their pocket. I find this kind of fair.


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27 Nov 2021, 12:33 pm

magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
Simply. If getting vaccinated is a thankless task then why bother.

Mostly to prevent collapse of NHS.
That's what's happening here, with a lot of vax resistance, including among older people.
People don't get treated for other illnesses because resources are pumped to covid patients.

Singapore chose another strategy - unvaxed people pay for covid treatment out of their pocket. I find this fair.



I'm doubtful of a collapse of the NHS any time soon. The elderly are the most at risk and I doubt vaccine uptake will drop any time soon with them.

Being moaned at by the obese idiots for not wearing a mask on a corner shop is what gets to me the most. The same obese idiots who take covid seriously yet have gained even more weight knowing a respiratory virus doing the rounds that has a penchant for killing people just like them who later end up in hospital being a drain on the NHS. There is a lot of these people where I live who swear by masks yet wobble down the street with knock knee and fat rolls.

I have little interest protecting those people. If there needs to be persistent need for vaccine uptake to protect the NHS, the British population and government needs to stop treating fully vaccinated people like s**t.



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27 Nov 2021, 12:43 pm

I guess the main problem is - you British people got pretty heavy propaganda to get everyone vaxed - and it turns out to have contained a lot of false promises.
You're still way better off, especially hospitalization- and death-wise, than populations with lower vax rates but it's not the "normality" politicians promised. That's disappointing.


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27 Nov 2021, 2:01 pm

magz wrote:
I guess the main problem is - you British people got pretty heavy propaganda to get everyone vaxed - and it turns out to have contained a lot of false promises.
You're still way better off, especially hospitalization- and death-wise, than populations with lower vax rates but it's not the "normality" politicians promised. That's disappointing.


Yip sadly everything you said is true. I think regardless of vaccine uptake however, nothing will be enough. I think the vaccines have been given their best shot and it's not really panned out as hoped for.

I think natural immunity with an acceptance of a permanently increased death rate is the only option left now.....unless they make the vaccines far more effective which they currently can't with the limitations of modern science.



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27 Nov 2021, 2:16 pm

magz wrote:
Mostly to prevent collapse of NHS.


The government will collapse the NHS before C19 does



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27 Nov 2021, 3:01 pm

So Africa is 6% jabbed and all four people that have the new
variant were double jabbed.

The Hong Kong patient was also double jabbed.

Quote:
Originally spotted in three patients in Botswana – and thus known as the Botswana variant – it has already been found in three countries since the first infections on November 11. Six cases have been detected in South Africa, and one more was later registered in Hong Kong, according to British media.

The Hong Kong patient recently traveled to China from South Africa – putting scientists on high alert, as the new variant could have spread anywhere through international travel. The patient is also said to be double vaccinated.


NU Variant Pandemic Of The JABBED
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27 Nov 2021, 3:06 pm

Vaccinated people can still get Covid — everybody knows this.

Get the vaccine, avoid Covid, and live.
Get the vaccine, get Covid, and live.
Refuse the vaccine, avoid Covid, and live.
Refuse the vaccine, get Covid, and die.

It is really just that simple.



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27 Nov 2021, 3:34 pm

The population appears to be in the process of being culled ... it is survival of the fittest immune system . The covid is merely the deciding factor . If you support the immune system with additives designed to attact the specific viral agent , then the immune system is selectively turned on to that agent . i think healthy immune systems are not that specific . They are far better able to tackle different variants because they the do not know any better . athe covid vaccine appears to me to be a big money grab . And vary possibly a eugenics program . If one was to be panicky about it . But the Powers thst be are repeated quoted in various places as the necessity of population reduction . Which all by itself is insane . A management of resources would fix overpopulation issues . This kind of technology is currently viable i feel to fix these things.
Please look up the Agenda 21 documents . It is a real document , not sure if it was drafted by the UN or the WHO . And people have ignored it because of how incredulous it is .
but this is( just my personal observations)


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27 Nov 2021, 3:46 pm

Fnord wrote:
Vaccinated people can still get Covid — everybody knows this.

Get the vaccine, avoid Covid, and live.
Get the vaccine, get Covid, and live.
Refuse the vaccine, avoid Covid, and live.
Refuse the vaccine, get Covid, and die around 3% of the time overall.
A lesser survival rate for those who are elderly and/or have comorbidity.


It is really just that simple.[/color]


Fixed it for you. 8)
Getting covid is not automatically a death sentence, but it could be.
Interested in playing Russian Roulette, anyone? :scratch:

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27 Nov 2021, 3:51 pm

Pepe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Booster shots will need to be tweaked to cover this new variant. In the meantime our premier is likely to lock us up again if just one case enters Australia.


I am desperately trying to arrange having a schnitzel with a friend before the *new* virus comes to Australia.
The last time we went out was the week that delta hit.
How many months was that, now? :scratch:


Reading the news this morning. The variant is 500x more infectious than delta. It may already be here.



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27 Nov 2021, 3:53 pm

Fnord wrote:
Vaccinated people can still get Covid — everybody knows this.

Get the vaccine, avoid Covid, and live.
Get the vaccine, get Covid, and live.
Refuse the vaccine, avoid Covid, and live.
Refuse the vaccine, get Covid, and die.

It is really just that simple.


Our infectious disease experts are saying that after all this, vaccines are not the only solution. New variants will keep popping up over the next 2 years while developing countries remain a repository for new mutations.

Herd immunity like the Swedes may be the only long term solution.



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27 Nov 2021, 3:58 pm

I heard it mentioned on the news just now, that the Omicron variant is much more infection but less deadly.
This seems to be the usual way some viruses mutate.
It is in "their" interest not to kill the host.
Let us hope this is correct. 8)



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27 Nov 2021, 4:00 pm

theprisoner wrote:
Omicron sounds ominous


Oi! That's *my* line. :evil: :mrgreen: