Why Increasing Minimum Wage is Meaningless
18 Jan 2022, 9:45 am
cyberdad wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
IWho will clean the floors and restrooms and empty the trashcans? Who will serve you coffee? Who will stock the shelves at the super market and who will do inventory to make sure they have enough supplies for people who will need it? Who will serve you your food if you want to eat at a Burger King?
Mexicans? Actually in Australia almost all those jobs no local wants to do was given (prior to COVID) to people on 457 visas from the Asia pacific region.
But they also have bills to pay too. Trust me. If you are so desperate for money, you will do anything job you can do. Some money is better than no money and I can bet more people would want to do those jobs if they paid more.
When the pandemic hit, it was hilarious seeing the right wing refusing to get these jobs while they were whining about losing their job. If they needed money that badly, go work in a store but that just shows how hypocritical they are. And since they were so anti covid, they could have put in their boot straps and get a f*****g low paying job so they had some money.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
18 Jan 2022, 9:49 am
Dox47 wrote:
Okay, let's try a different approach.
If I want someone to mow my lawn for me, do I set the priced based on how much not having to cut my own grass is worth to me, or do I have to pay according to some calculation as to what is a "fair" price for the job? If the latter answer, why, and who sets the price?
If I want someone to mow my lawn for me, do I set the priced based on how much not having to cut my own grass is worth to me, or do I have to pay according to some calculation as to what is a "fair" price for the job? If the latter answer, why, and who sets the price?
Well it costs me around $250 to hire someone to clean my top floor gutters. Good luck trying to hire someone to cut your yard for $10. Maybe a kid will do it but they might ask for $50 if they are aware of what is going on in life and how much people actually make from Landscaping. It cost us $4000 to trim our oak tree.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
18 Jan 2022, 9:54 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Just how are people supposed to afford a roof over their heads when rent is priced beyond their ability to pay.
When the minimum wage skyrocketed where I live, so did my rent. Which forced me to move into a tiny room in a 100 year old bedbug and cockroach ridden hotel.
Or is it just the landlords seeing this as a pretext to price gouge?
Sadly, lot of landlords see it as a business than just giving people housing.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
18 Jan 2022, 9:34 pm
League_Girl wrote:
Sadly, lot of landlords see it as a business than just giving people housing.
It is a business, and not a very fun one either.
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Kraichgauer
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19 Jan 2022, 2:24 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
It's even less fun for renters to end up homeless.
Do you think property owners owe people a place to stay? Like, if I own a duplex and live in one unit and rent out the other, do I not get to set the price and conditions for the person I'm renting to?
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“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
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Kraichgauer
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19 Jan 2022, 3:00 am
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It's even less fun for renters to end up homeless.
Do you think property owners owe people a place to stay? Like, if I own a duplex and live in one unit and rent out the other, do I not get to set the price and conditions for the person I'm renting to?
There are those of us who consider a place to live a human right. Someone's responsible when poverty makes that an impossibility.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
19 Jan 2022, 3:30 am
League_Girl wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
IWho will clean the floors and restrooms and empty the trashcans? Who will serve you coffee? Who will stock the shelves at the super market and who will do inventory to make sure they have enough supplies for people who will need it? Who will serve you your food if you want to eat at a Burger King?
Mexicans? Actually in Australia almost all those jobs no local wants to do was given (prior to COVID) to people on 457 visas from the Asia pacific region.
But they also have bills to pay too. Trust me. If you are so desperate for money, you will do anything job you can do. Some money is better than no money and I can bet more people would want to do those jobs if they paid more.
When the pandemic hit, it was hilarious seeing the right wing refusing to get these jobs while they were whining about losing their job. If they needed money that badly, go work in a store but that just shows how hypocritical they are. And since they were so anti covid, they could have put in their boot straps and get a f*****g low paying job so they had some money.
I pay so much in bills I simply don't know how people on the minimum wage actually survive?
Working 3-4 jobs/week to keep a roof over one's head seems like bonded labor
19 Jan 2022, 3:38 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
There are those of us who consider a place to live a human right. Someone's responsible when poverty makes that an impossibility.
That doesn't answer my question, and it goes right back to the trope I mentioned earlier about declaring things human rights and then acting as if that exempts them from basic economic principles. Are you going to take in homeless people and let them live in your home rent free? Do you have a retirement account that you're willing to tap to provide housing for people who can't or won't pay for their own? Maybe you'd allow someone to sleep in your car while you're not using it?
_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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Posts: 47,853
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
19 Jan 2022, 5:26 am
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There are those of us who consider a place to live a human right. Someone's responsible when poverty makes that an impossibility.
That doesn't answer my question, and it goes right back to the trope I mentioned earlier about declaring things human rights and then acting as if that exempts them from basic economic principles. Are you going to take in homeless people and let them live in your home rent free? Do you have a retirement account that you're willing to tap to provide housing for people who can't or won't pay for their own? Maybe you'd allow someone to sleep in your car while you're not using it?
Or maybe the government - which also includes voters and tax payers - could be willing to make an effort to provide a roof over the head of citizens who would otherwise be homeless. And I don't just mean homeless shelters, but actual low income housing.
As for the notion of exempting them from "basic economic principles," one must remember that a person destitute and without a home isn't going to be taking part in the economy in any manner.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
19 Jan 2022, 8:24 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There are those of us who consider a place to live a human right. Someone's responsible when poverty makes that an impossibility.
That doesn't answer my question, and it goes right back to the trope I mentioned earlier about declaring things human rights and then acting as if that exempts them from basic economic principles. Are you going to take in homeless people and let them live in your home rent free? Do you have a retirement account that you're willing to tap to provide housing for people who can't or won't pay for their own? Maybe you'd allow someone to sleep in your car while you're not using it?
Or maybe the government - which also includes voters and tax payers - could be willing to make an effort to provide a roof over the head of citizens who would otherwise be homeless. And I don't just mean homeless shelters, but actual low income housing.
As for the notion of exempting them from "basic economic principles," one must remember that a person destitute and without a home isn't going to be taking part in the economy in any manner.
Houses in the UK cost about £1500 per square meter to make. It adds up to a lot of money when a lot of the homeless are homeless for a reason and house builders are not paid with an IOU by assuming those living in the houses can afford to pay them off in one way or another in 25 years.
19 Jan 2022, 11:25 am
Dox47 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Sadly, lot of landlords see it as a business than just giving people housing.
It is a business, and not a very fun one either.
Our landlord only charged us $650 in rent and this was under the market. The apartment had never been updated, just kitchen appliances and she only did repairs that were necessary and she never did it for profit. We always paid our rent because we respected her and two, she kept the place maintained and three, landlords need to collect their rent to pay for property tax and maintenance and appliances. I also cleaned it top to bottom when we moved out and she was very surprised and actually wrote us a letter thanking us. She had it rented out within a week. She was an elderly woman in her 70's and a widow and she believed in giving people housing than profit. Yes we paid our rent because it's life. She never price gouged us and never did it for profit.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
19 Jan 2022, 11:33 am
cyberdad wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
IWho will clean the floors and restrooms and empty the trashcans? Who will serve you coffee? Who will stock the shelves at the super market and who will do inventory to make sure they have enough supplies for people who will need it? Who will serve you your food if you want to eat at a Burger King?
Mexicans? Actually in Australia almost all those jobs no local wants to do was given (prior to COVID) to people on 457 visas from the Asia pacific region.
But they also have bills to pay too. Trust me. If you are so desperate for money, you will do anything job you can do. Some money is better than no money and I can bet more people would want to do those jobs if they paid more.
When the pandemic hit, it was hilarious seeing the right wing refusing to get these jobs while they were whining about losing their job. If they needed money that badly, go work in a store but that just shows how hypocritical they are. And since they were so anti covid, they could have put in their boot straps and get a f*****g low paying job so they had some money.
I pay so much in bills I simply don't know how people on the minimum wage actually survive?
Working 3-4 jobs/week to keep a roof over one's head seems like bonded labor
Simple, they either do the work themselves or they let their house fall into disrepair because they are too poor to maintain it. Me and my husband have to use our tax return money to pay home maintenance which isn't often. The most expensive has been plumbing and a new furnace and it took us a year to pay for our new windows and to trim our bushes and oak tree. But most poor people rent or are on affordable housing or section 8. If you have kids, you are on the top priority list and they give you benefits too like EBT and the school district will help poor families too. But sadly the kids miss out on school activities because their parents are too poor. Even teachers have to help out poor students but they don't have to do it but they do because how else will the kid do their school work if they don't have proper school supplies? An awe moment was when I read a story about a teacher buying her student a new pair of shoes because her feet were hurting and she couldn't do PE very well and always went barefoot indoors.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
19 Jan 2022, 11:38 am
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There are those of us who consider a place to live a human right. Someone's responsible when poverty makes that an impossibility.
That doesn't answer my question, and it goes right back to the trope I mentioned earlier about declaring things human rights and then acting as if that exempts them from basic economic principles. Are you going to take in homeless people and let them live in your home rent free? Do you have a retirement account that you're willing to tap to provide housing for people who can't or won't pay for their own? Maybe you'd allow someone to sleep in your car while you're not using it?
Letting them live for rent free is a strawman. We just don't want the landlords to price gouge and only charge fair rent and not raise rent just to raise rent because you can and that because there are people who will pay that much in rent so you do it as a way to kick out your current tenants. Heck there are landlords that will raise the rent and they never even updated their units and they just raise rent just to raise rent for no reason.
Sadly there are very few landlords who will charge their tenants fair in rent and not ever raise it. I even saw a landlord online get scolded by other landlords for never raising their tenants they had for 10 years in rent. Those greedy landlords had the audacity to tell the landlord she was doing her tenants a disservice by never raising the rent and not having her tenants "experience the real world." This landlord was not greedy and for profit and she believed in giving people housing so that was what she did for this family.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
19 Jan 2022, 11:40 am
League_Girl wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There are those of us who consider a place to live a human right. Someone's responsible when poverty makes that an impossibility.
That doesn't answer my question, and it goes right back to the trope I mentioned earlier about declaring things human rights and then acting as if that exempts them from basic economic principles. Are you going to take in homeless people and let them live in your home rent free? Do you have a retirement account that you're willing to tap to provide housing for people who can't or won't pay for their own? Maybe you'd allow someone to sleep in your car while you're not using it?
Letting them live for rent free is a strawman. We just don't want the landlords to price gouge and only charge fair rent and not raise rent just to raise rent because you can and that because there are people who will pay that much in rent so you do it as a way to kick out your current tenants. Heck there are landlords that will raise the rent and they never even updated their units and they just raise rent just to raise rent for no reason.
Sadly there are very few landlords who will charge their tenants fair in rent and not ever raise it. I even saw a landlord online get scolded by other landlords for never raising their tenants they had for 10 years in rent. Those greedy landlords had the audacity to tell the landlord she was doing her tenants a disservice by never raising the rent and not having her tenants "experience the real world." This landlord was not greedy and for profit and she believed in giving people housing so that was what she did for this family.
Rent needs to go up with inflation. Never raising it in ten years is a bit extreme with me too.
19 Jan 2022, 12:22 pm
Nades wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There are those of us who consider a place to live a human right. Someone's responsible when poverty makes that an impossibility.
That doesn't answer my question, and it goes right back to the trope I mentioned earlier about declaring things human rights and then acting as if that exempts them from basic economic principles. Are you going to take in homeless people and let them live in your home rent free? Do you have a retirement account that you're willing to tap to provide housing for people who can't or won't pay for their own? Maybe you'd allow someone to sleep in your car while you're not using it?
Letting them live for rent free is a strawman. We just don't want the landlords to price gouge and only charge fair rent and not raise rent just to raise rent because you can and that because there are people who will pay that much in rent so you do it as a way to kick out your current tenants. Heck there are landlords that will raise the rent and they never even updated their units and they just raise rent just to raise rent for no reason.
Sadly there are very few landlords who will charge their tenants fair in rent and not ever raise it. I even saw a landlord online get scolded by other landlords for never raising their tenants they had for 10 years in rent. Those greedy landlords had the audacity to tell the landlord she was doing her tenants a disservice by never raising the rent and not having her tenants "experience the real world." This landlord was not greedy and for profit and she believed in giving people housing so that was what she did for this family.
Rent needs to go up with inflation. Never raising it in ten years is a bit extreme with me too.
But work wages don't? They never even kept up with inflation which is the exactly the reason why people are fighting for higher wages. Labor workers practically made more back then than we do now.
PS Mine never went up the five years I lived in my apartment. I also noticed prices don't go up with products we buy. In fact prices are lower now and even video game prices have stayed the same in the last 40 years. They never changed in price with inflation. In fact they were more expensive then when we put inflation into mind.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.
