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cyberdad
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06 Feb 2022, 6:31 pm

Following the prosecution of Ahmad Arbery's killers the McMichael brothers and the Kyle Rittenhouse case, a new Missouri bill that would alter self-defense laws and establish that any use of “physical or deadly force” would be presumed to be self-defense has prompted controversy and sharp criticism from opponents.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... ense-laws/

Proponents of the bill argue that it shields citizens who exercise their Second Amendment rights, and are protected by existing state self-defense laws, from unfair prosecution. Opponents warn that it could bring dangerous, unintended consequences for public safety and hinder law enforcement’s ability to prosecute violent criminals.

Under current state law, citizens have the right to use physical force on another person to protect themselves, in instances including, but not limited to, when someone unlawfully enters private property or someone’s home. Yet the person bears the legal burden to prove he or she “reasonably believed physical or deadly force was necessary to protect him or herself or a third person.”

The proposed Senate Bill 666 would shift that burden of proof onto prosecutors, who would now need to present “clear and convincing evidence” during a pretrial hearing that the defendant was acting on motives other than self-defense before they can press charges.

The bill, sponsored by Republican state Sen. Eric Burlison, also states that a person who uses, or threatens to use, force in self-defense “is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force” unless that force was directed against a law-enforcement officer on duty.

“It would mean that practically in every murder case where you don’t have a witness, all the defendant has to say is that he or she was acting in self-defense to get away with it,” he said. “It also means you are going to have a lot of murderers walking free if this becomes law.”

The bill is being pushed by Mark McCloskey, an attorney who gained national attention after he and his wife pointed firearms at Black Lives Matter protesters marching past their home in St. Louis in 2020,

Image

Mckloskey praised the bill, arguing that it shields people from overzealous prosecution and protects their Second Amendment rights. McCloskey, who is running for U.S. Senate and has been a staunch supporter of former president Donald Trump, said on his campaign website that the incident for which he and his wife ended up pleading guilty to misdemeanors has “empowered thousands of new gun owners across the country to purchase a firearm and learn how to defend themselves.”

Bill 666 reminds me of Order 66 in Star Wars and revenge of the Sith. Quite appropriate it also is the devil's number.



kraftiekortie
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07 Feb 2022, 11:18 am

It's ironic they would name an order "666" in a Bible Belt locale.....



Fnord
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07 Feb 2022, 11:25 am

It is an extension of the "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" principle.  It also shifts the burden of proof for willful and malicious intent upon the prosecutors, where it belongs.

"666"? :lol:

This is likely one time the right-wing Christian fundies will NOT attack such an "evil" law.



cyberdad
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07 Feb 2022, 4:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
It is an extension of the "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" principle.  It also shifts the burden of proof for willful and malicious intent upon the prosecutors, where it belongs.

"666"? :lol:

This is likely one time the right-wing Christian fundies will NOT attack such an "evil" law.


My rudimentary understanding of American law is that it's an extension of the "stand your ground law" which is an American extension of the old English "Castling" law where a man's home is his castle.

It's an NRA fantasy that gun owners can chase down and kill so called "criminals" and not face prosecution, It's clearly a response to the recent spate of vigilante actions by gun owners.



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07 Feb 2022, 8:46 pm

Cyberdad -
I honestly first thought you were joking about the name, "order 666!"


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cyberdad
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08 Feb 2022, 12:56 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Cyberdad -
I honestly first thought you were joking about the name, "order 666!"


No it's real buddy. Republicans are literally now sith lords.



Hollywood_Guy
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08 Feb 2022, 1:09 am

Do you think allowing self-defense firearms really has anything to do with religion? There is such a thing as a pro-2A atheist too. Supporting a bill liberalizing firearms use shouldn't have anything to do with religious fundamentalism.



cyberdad
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08 Feb 2022, 2:34 am

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Do you think allowing self-defense firearms really has anything to do with religion? There is such a thing as a pro-2A atheist too. Supporting a bill liberalizing firearms use shouldn't have anything to do with religious fundamentalism.


I think it's a licence to shoot BLM protestors



Aspiegaming
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08 Feb 2022, 11:55 am

cyberdad wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Do you think allowing self-defense firearms really has anything to do with religion? There is such a thing as a pro-2A atheist too. Supporting a bill liberalizing firearms use shouldn't have anything to do with religious fundamentalism.


I think it's a licence to shoot BLM protestors


If they think the protests are bad now, that will really set them off.


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cyberdad
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08 Feb 2022, 6:51 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Do you think allowing self-defense firearms really has anything to do with religion? There is such a thing as a pro-2A atheist too. Supporting a bill liberalizing firearms use shouldn't have anything to do with religious fundamentalism.


I think it's a licence to shoot BLM protestors


If they think the protests are bad now, that will really set them off.


Well I think this type of law emboldens future vigilantes to take pot shots at protesters. That's why I posted the image of McKloskey and his wife aiming their weapons at BLM protesters. He's one of the biggest proponents of the bill.



Jakki
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08 Feb 2022, 8:35 pm

Think maybe the idea is for those whom are considered defenseless, to be able to defend themselves .
Cause the police are not able to be everywhere . And population is swinging towards , more economically disadvantaged . So consequently crime rates may go up . So perhaps .
It may stem some degree of criminal activity ? :|


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cyberdad
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08 Feb 2022, 9:38 pm

Jakki wrote:
Think maybe the idea is for those whom are considered defenseless, to be able to defend themselves .
Cause the police are not able to be everywhere . And population is swinging towards , more economically disadvantaged . So consequently crime rates may go up . So perhaps .
It may stem some degree of criminal activity ? :|


Well that's the idea being sold. But those pushing the bill are being driven by other agendas.



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08 Feb 2022, 9:41 pm

That is sad that other agendas are even involved . :(


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08 Feb 2022, 9:52 pm

things just keep getting worse and worse.



cyberdad
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09 Feb 2022, 12:30 am

auntblabby wrote:
things just keep getting worse and worse.


These republican jokers actually chose the number 666 to designate this bill. They aren't even hiding the nature of this proposed law. It's devilish.



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09 Feb 2022, 12:34 am

^^^they cast their lot with the principalities and powers.